As I’ve said, Utah law enforcement has been completely silent, even though they’ve been involved in the investigation. What hasn’t been charged yet is the molestation that took place in Utah and Ohio. Those are state crimes. The federal charges are more trafficking related.
Okay
Also, unless you’ve investigated cases as an LEO, what makes sense to you is irrelevant.
I’m discussing something on a message board, so what makes sense to me is entirely relevant to that.
While a case is under investigation, It’s safe to assume that law enforcement knows more than the public. Utah law enforcement may have lots more to investigate than the facts as we know them.
I’m sure they do. But we aren’t law enforcement, we are just discussing and speculating on the available information, As more information becomes available we can discuss that too.
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
As I’ve said, Utah law enforcement has been completely silent, even though they’ve been involved in the investigation. What hasn’t been charged yet is the molestation that took place in Utah and Ohio. Those are state crimes. The federal charges are more trafficking related.
Okay
Also, unless you’ve investigated cases as an LEO, what makes sense to you is irrelevant.
I’m discussing something on a message board, so what makes sense to me is entirely relevant to that.
While a case is under investigation, It’s safe to assume that law enforcement knows more than the public. Utah law enforcement may have lots more to investigate than the facts as we know them.
I’m sure they do. But we aren’t law enforcement, we are just discussing and speculating on the available information, As more information becomes available we can discuss that too.
Speaking of information, does anyone have a link to the LDS church statement the trib article refers to? It doesn't seem to be findable on their newsroom site or anywhere else.
I’m discussing something on a message board, so what makes sense to me is entirely relevant to that. I’m sure they do. But we aren’t law enforcement, we are just discussing and speculating on the available information, As more information becomes available we can discuss that too.
Speaking of information, does anyone have a link to the LDS church statement the trib article refers to? It doesn't seem to be findable on their newsroom site or anywhere else.
I couldn’t find it either. Not on Church News, nor Deseret News. Not on any Church social media site.
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
I’m discussing something on a message board, so what makes sense to me is entirely relevant to that. I’m sure they do. But we aren’t law enforcement, we are just discussing and speculating on the available information, As more information becomes available we can discuss that too.
Speaking of information, does anyone have a link to the LDS church statement the trib article refers to? It doesn't seem to be findable on their newsroom site or anywhere else.
I tried to find it, without success. The Trib quotes part and paraphrases part, so I wanted to see the entire original statement. The church has a “news” section, but it does not appear to include all press releases or statements.
he/him
“I prefer peace. But if trouble must come, let it come in my time so that my children can live in peace.” — Thomas Paine
My guess is that the Statement was provided to the SLT via email, when they requested comment from the Church prior to running the story, and wasn't an LDS Newsroom or news wire press release.
My guess is that the Statement was provided to the SLT via email, when they requested comment from the Church prior to running the story, and wasn't an LDS Newsroom or news wire press release.
I think that’s a good guess. I’m curious as to whether the church representative used active or passive voice when describing the reporting to law enforcement.
he/him
“I prefer peace. But if trouble must come, let it come in my time so that my children can live in peace.” — Thomas Paine
I did a little reading to better understand what law enforcement may be doing in terms of investigation/prosecution. Here's what I found. Both of the charges in Ohio are felonies under federal law. The Constitution requires federal prosecution of a felony to begin with a grand jury indictment. There has not been an indictment filed yet. If the feds are going to prosecute under the two statutes named in the affidavit, they will have to obtain and file a grand jury indictment in the case.
However, the feds don't have to begin the case with an indictment. Often, when they feel the need to arrest a suspect quickly, they can submit an information or an affidavit that requests a judge to find probable cause for a criminal complaint and issue an arrest warrant.
The Dublin, Ohio Police Department searched Wade's house on November 12. It doesn't say whether Wade was at home. They found on his devices texts about staying with a relative in Arizona starting the next day. They also found evidence that he might be planning to leave the country. He had been planning to visit his family in Utah, which he apparently did. The feds filed the affidavit and asked the federal judge in Ohio for an arrest warrant on November 20 and he was arrested in Utah that same day, according to media reports.
The arrest warrant was filed in Utah federal court on the 21st. The Court held a hearing on the 25th, at which a public defender was appointed for Wade and he waived certain preliminary rights (right to be identified, see the warrant, etc.). Then the Utah proceeding was transferred to the federal court in Ohio. Some documents from the Utah case were in Ohio filed on December 8, and that's it for now. No indictment and no arraignment.
The federal statutes listed in the affidavit don't seem to me to be a great fit with Wade's confessed conduct. 18 U.S.C. § 2251 has to do with child pornography, where either the child or the pornography cross state lines. 18 U.S.C. § 2422 has to do with coercing or enticing someone to cross state line for prostitution or to participate in another sex crime or using the mail or other means of interstate commerce to coerce or entice a minor to commit an act of prostitution or participate in some other sex crime.
Technically, he used face time (an instrument of interstate commerce) to transmit an unclothed image of his granddaughter from Utah to Ohio. And he did use the mail to entice the same victim to participate in conduct that would be crime for him to commit. But neither charge covers the actual touching of both girls that he confessed to. That would be charged under state sex crime statutes in state court.
At this point, I think the current charges were filed in Ohio because there was evidence that Wade was a flight risk. We will have to wait until he is indicted by a grand jury and the indictment made pubic before knowing exactly which crimes will be prosecuted by the feds. I have no idea what the general practice is in Utah or Ohio state courts with respect to use of grand juries. Given the press attention the matter has already received, I think it's likely that Salt Lake media would report the commencement of criminal proceedings in either state.
If the reporting on Floodlit is accurate, there is a fair amount of investigation that should be done here. It says that victims reported Wade's conduct to their bishop at a time when the Bishop and Wade were close friends and Wade was in the bishopric. That doesn't sound like a confidential confession, and no criminal charges were ever filed. No one knows how many victims there were in the 1990s when Wade was excommunicated and how many there have been since. I hope law enforcement investigates the hell out of this mess, including whether any mandatory reporting violations occurred. And I hope there are reporters who will chase down who in leadership knew what about Wade and why the church took his annotation off. The church has had lots of time to get its act together in terms of protecting members' children from pedophiles, and both members and the public deserve to know what the institution is and is not doing to protect the children.
he/him
“I prefer peace. But if trouble must come, let it come in my time so that my children can live in peace.” — Thomas Paine
Isn't it amazing how God sent an angel to force Joseph Smith to take multiple teenage brides, yet cannot spare a single angel to protect the most vulnerable children from a lifetime of torment? Couldn't God have at least inspired his prophet/apostles to not remove the annotation? Is that too much to ask from God? Is it too much to ask the prophet/apostles to use common sense and not remove annotations so sexual predators can't serve in callings that allow unfettered access to children?
"I'm on paid sabbatical from BYU in exchange for my promise to use this time to finish two books."
Christofferson also looked online about leaving the United States, the charging document says, and texted a family member in Arizona on Nov. 11 to ask if he could come there for “an open-ended stay” starting on Nov. 13.
Wade's brother Tom is currently cited as a Gospel Doctrine teacher in Mesa Arizona.
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
I’m discussing something on a message board, so what makes sense to me is entirely relevant to that. I’m sure they do. But we aren’t law enforcement, we are just discussing and speculating on the available information, As more information becomes available we can discuss that too.
Speaking of information, does anyone have a link to the LDS church statement the trib article refers to? It doesn't seem to be findable on their newsroom site or anywhere else.
It is interesting that the Church issued a public statement on the recent tragic shootings in Australia...
“We are deeply saddened by the tragedy that took place in Sydney targeting people of faith as they gathered,” according to the statement. “We condemn, and feel acutely the pain of, such a senseless act and mourn with our brothers and sisters in the Jewish community around the world. May we all come together in peace and love to comfort those in need. As followers of Jesus Christ, we look to His example and pray that His love will soften hearts and inspire harmony and compassion during this holy season.”
...but has chosen not to issue a public statement about the self-confessed decades-long child abuse of family members by the brother of the second counsellor in the First Presidency. It's as if they issue public statements about things just for the purpose of virtue signalling.
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
