Secular folks should worry.

[Everybody Wang Chung]

*snip

Mr. Chung, this isn’t the first time you’ve done a ‘drive by’ with nothing useful to contribute. And it won’t be the last.

For those others that are reading this thread who have an open mind or are just coming into this thread I encourage you to go back and browse through the thread, read the links, dig deep, and come up with your own conclusions as to whether or not we have concerns that ought to be addressed as we are now moving into the age of GenZ.

Don’t listen to the naysayers, do your own thinking and your own research. I’ve given some places to begin if you choose to.

Then go on from there.

Regards,
MG

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

I think drilling down on MG’s hit job on GenZ is really more about his fear of demographics more than anything else. Perhaps somewhere in his felt-lined cranium his circuit board is doing the math. He and his Boomer muppet brethren are dying at ~ a 2:1 rate. Demographically, Republicans are old, white, and Christian.

…

Historically, Leftism was balanced out by voters drifting to Right as they age, because old people don’t like to share and like god. However, about half of GenX, most Millennials, and definitely GenZ are not moving to the Right; I think most of us are actually moving further to the Left as we age. I guess them sky high rents and bankruptcy if you get surgery isn’t really the utopia the liars on the Right made it out to be.

So. Yeah. GOP core demographics are shrinking fast. The Republicans better ditch democracy faster if they’re going to keep the billionaire class in power, otherwise GenZ is going to pass universal healthcare.

- Doc

Mental “Apex Boomer” Gymnast is a lolcow.

- Doc

[honorentheos]

…MG largely asserting thoughtless rightwing propoganda points rather than engaging in discussion.

You haven’t been reading my posts for full comprehension and context. As a result you are making stuff up.

“Thoughtless rightwing propaganda”.

Sure. Right.

Not.

You guys are so stinkin’ predictable.

My point, after 70 plus pages, still stands.

I’m actually quite surprised at the ‘kickback’. I find that very telling.

Are we ready to ‘you go your way and I’ll go mine’ yet?

Regards,
MG

You posted the OP which was quickly shown to be a Trojan horse from an Evangelical source that makes use of data to assert evangelical kids are doing a better job maintaining evangelical cultural norms compared to other demographics among GenZ. You assert that should concern everyone. Your concerns? Rightwing political propoganda points blaring sirens to boomers that the world is changing and they should be scared. You were asked a few questions in attempts to get you to dig deeper past the propoganda (what is civil society? What is secularism? What evidence do you have the early founders of the US Constitution shared your views in any foundational way? What is secular humanism and why do you act so terrified of it's influence? Is this anything more than fear of change in society away from religion towards other forms of morality? Why is it your belief system that espouses morality is radically situational not concerning to you as you decry situational ethics despite not once engaging in the topic of ethics in this thread in a meaningful way despite numerous invitations to do so with sincere interest while claiming no one will engage you on that topic?)

You refused to answer in meaningful ways and act like you've popped the lid off some big revelation in this thread.

You came here on a crusade and you're tilting at windmills. Olé!

[Morley]

More like tilting at lawn ornaments.

[honorentheos]

More like tilting at lawn ornaments.

I yield to the superior, more poetic description.

[Res Ipsa]

So, a survey done by an organization whose mission is to promote Christianity that I cannot access without giving them my e-mail address. https://www.neighborlyfaith.org/who-we-are

Hard pass.

From the very first page of this thread. Thing is, this site is pretty much fully accessible without an email address. And it went on from there.

True, the report referred to did require an email address.

The rest of the site is wide open.

For example, one can go to neighborly faith and in three clicks go to this:

https://www.voanews.com/a/thwarting-a-r ... 44037.html

Read it carefully. GenZ is changing the course of our society. Or hopes to. Along with many of their secular liberal humanist parents. And some on this thread wanted to derail by nitpicking on definitions.

What a ride this thread was.

And neighborly faith is made up of individuals of different backgrounds and religions. I guess what offended me is that right at the outset sources and websites were being dissed without really digging in. Oh well.

Wouldn’t be surprised if this thread makes it to eighty pages. Or we could just let things sit as they are…

Regards,
MG

So, you want a do-over on the entire thread?

You posted about a survey. To get to the survey, the site required me to give my e-mail address to a religious evangelical organization, from whom I have no desire to receive unsolicited e-mail. Eventually, I bit the bullet and was surprised to find that I still wasn't given access to the survey itself, including information I would use in the normal course of evaluating the results of a survey. Reputable polling organizations that publicize the results of their surveys make all that information publicly accessible without requiring submission of an e-mail address.

And, without revising history, it was you who failed to do any research at all into what the study was and why it was conducted. You just jumped right on it without reading it or without the "digging into" the site that you now are chastising everyone else for not doing. Why? Because you have an incurable need to have an enemy to scapegoat.

From one old geezer to another: this is how the world works. Cohorts get old and die off and newer cohorts get to take over. Us Boomers have held a death grip on the government for so long because there were so damn many of us. And now you're simply trying to prolong the death grip by demonizing the young folks that are coming into power. Your time and my time has come and gone when it comes to running the country. It's someone else's turn now. And this Boomer thinks it's long past time, given the significant ways we've taken a country that had a significant amount of promise and run it into the ground (unless you're lucky enough to be in the top percentages of income and wealth.)

I met two young GenZ guys this week: Joshua and Bone. Together, they run three adjacent businesses in a small retail complex. They are both married, each with two young kids. What I found interesting and heartening was their approach to their businesses. Beyond developing a customer base, they are working at building a community around their businesses. We talked for 45 minutes about their philosophy toward building communities. It was exactly the kind of approach that provides an opportunity to transcend political or religious differences, putting people first.

That's who you're trying to demonize: Two families who are working at a local level to actually reduce the divide while you try to make the divide wider and wider.

I certainly hope they are trying to move the country away from the demonization of millions of citizens that you actively work at here.

[MG 2.0]

I certainly hope they are trying to move the country away from the demonization of millions of citizens that you actively work at here.

Gen Zers are progressive and pro-government, most see the country’s growing racial and ethnic diversity as a good thing, and they’re less likely than older generations to see the United States as superior to other nations.”
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... ns/616818/

I suppose at the end of this discussion my worry is that as GenZ shows a tendency towards moving away from the “faith of their fathers” (generally speaking) and becoming more secular and non theistic in their leanings we may see a trend towards placing ‘faith’ in government and institutions as being their ‘savior’ of sorts.

Conservatives and even many classical liberals would rather that we have limited government rather than a government, with all of its appendages (military industrial complex and other ‘complexes’) becoming ‘god’ in the power and authority it exercises in our lives and freedoms (free speech, etc.).

At the end of the day that is where my concerns lie.

I am NOT condemning GenZ. I am simply concerned in regards as to where their natural impulses of ‘faith’ in SOMETHING will lead them if they see government as the replacement for natural law which is seen as having its source from an all wise creator. In other words placing all faith and belief in the councils of men and fully trusting in that wisdom alone.

And to be clear I do believe in complete separation of church and state. Somewhere earlier in the thread someone made an accusation otherwise.

And to repeat, I am not in disfavor of any individual choosing secularism over theistic belief. I am concerned with any sort/kind of a groundswell that would replace religion or theistic belief with strict government influence and/or controls. Which COULD result in the elimination of free exercise of religion at some point in time. I see GenZ as showing potential to move that direction. That is, placing too much faith in government apparatus as being ‘savior’.

Maybe I’m wrong. If so, awesome (in my opinion).

I’ve enjoyed the discussion. I believe, however, there has been a significant degree of misunderstanding which has resulted in unwarranted criticism and innuendo. But that’s water under the bridge at this point. I’m happy to let things sit as they are. Some valid points have been made all the way around.

I appreciated those that exercised a degree of civility and understanding without jumping to hasty conclusions and the resulting accusations which can create disharmony and misunderstanding.

It is THAT civility that will be the hope of a future society where all people can coexist in peace.

Thanks all. Good conversation overall except for some blips here and there.

Until later.

Regards,
MG

[Res Ipsa]

WTH is wrong With people.

These sorts of occurrences and many others like them do not lead us towards a more civil society. I think, on the whole, we can agree on that point.

In answer to the question asked I would say that the perpetrators were right wing nationalists that were unhinged. Those that were involved in the not so long ago summer riots/anarchy (Oregon and elsewhere), on the other hand, may have more than likely been secular liberals…or dupes of the same.

Likely also unhinged.

It’s those folks, the anarchists, that I would think we all ought to be concerned with along with right wing fanatics . I wouldn’t hesitate to throughout the possibility that many of the summer rioters/anarchists were/are GenZ.

Regards,
MG

Your protestations that you aren’t condemning Gen Z ring hollow when you throw in a gratuitous slam like this on Gen Z.

The Oregon anarchists, and anarchists in general, were around long before there was a Gen Z. Some, like the group from around Eugene, are anti property. Others are completely non violent. One again, you are demonizing a group of your fellow humans, this time based only on their age.

[Marcus]

And to be clear I do believe in complete separation of church and state. Somewhere earlier in the thread someone made an accusation otherwise

Because you write things like the sentence just prior to the one above:

...if they see government as the replacement for natural law which is seen as having its source from an all wise creator....

That sentence completely vitiates your argument that you believe in a separation of church and state.

Your "natural law" is just your personal belief in god. Forcing it on all orhers is nonsensical.

And i agree, your generational and religious bias is unfounded and based in bigotry.

[Gadianton]

Conservatives and even many classical liberals would rather that we have limited government rather than a government, with all of its appendages (military industrial complex and other ‘complexes’) becoming ‘god’ in the power and authority it exercises in our lives and freedoms (free speech, etc.).

The biggest problem you have right now is that you and your fellow Fox news conservatives want a theocracy. You must not be paying attention to what your party has been up to in the last few years. "Public schools in Texas would have to prominently display the Ten Commandments in every classroom" -- this isn't "limited government" MG. Once your party gets over the Christian police state phase they are in right now, we can talk about small vs. big government like we might have in 1985.

Your Trump and DeSantis and Keri Lake, and Mike Lindell, all your favorite people are so utterly ridiculous that yeah, GenZ may go a little to far left to make sure that sh*t never happens on their watch, and I wouldn't be able to blame them for it.