so, what happened today in Sacrament meeting?

Post by **_asbestosman** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 11:34 pm

The Nehor wrote:I then slept through Church due to exhaustion. I expect God will let me off the hook for that one.

No problem. Most of the old guys sleep through church too. They just do it while sitting up front.

Oh, and I hope they're OK.

Post by **_The Nehor** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 11:42 pm

asbestosman wrote:
The Nehor wrote:I then slept through Church due to exhaustion. I expect God will let me off the hook for that one.

No problem. Most of the old guys sleep through church too. They just do it while sitting up front.

Oh, and I hope they're OK.

Haven't heard since yesterday when she was still in hospital. If they need help they'll call.

And your sig keeps making me want to pull out FF6 again and fight Kefka. Stop it!!!!!!!! :)

Post by **_asbestosman** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 11:57 pm

The Nehor wrote:And your sig keeps making me want to pull out FF6 again and fight Kefka. Stop it!!!!!!!! :)

Oh come on. General Leo reminds me of Captain Moroni. Maybe it could make you want to pull out your scriptures and read about when Zerahemnah gets scalped or something. I think that since the Book of Mormon movie kinda flopped we ought to put together a niche Book of Mormon RPG instead. Just think of how much money we could earn from the support calls for help getting through the Isaiah chapters of 2nd Nephi.

Post by **_The Nehor** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:14 am

asbestosman wrote:
The Nehor wrote:And your sig keeps making me want to pull out FF6 again and fight Kefka. Stop it!!!!!!!! :)

Oh come on. General Leo reminds me of Captain Moroni. Maybe it could make you want to pull out your scriptures and read about when Zerahemnah gets scalped or something. I think that since the Book of Mormon movie kinda flopped we ought to put together a niche Book of Mormon RPG instead. Just think of how much money we could earn from the support calls for help getting through the Isaiah chapters of 2nd Nephi.

That's scary :)

Considering how bad most biblical games are I'm not sure I want to know. I did play a pen and paper Christian RPG once when a friend invited me to his group. Weird experience. I got possessed just to see what it was like so I just started playing as a demon. They thought I played a demon quite well (What does that say about me?). It got weird when I made a pact with the devil to permanently up my stats. When I told everyone my next goal was to turn the local church into a cannibalistic cult of personality to enthrone myself as the AntiChrist the game ended. I was never invited back.

Post by **_beastie** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:44 am

God answering someone's prayer about lost car keys and yet ignoring the prayers of others in dire circumstances is just one of many examples of how it all makes sense only if there is no god in the first place.

It's kind of like trying to work through the Mormon controversies when still a believer. Why did God allow Joseph Smith to marry other men's wives? Why is there no archaeological evidence for the Book of Mormon? Why does the Book of Abraham papyrii not match Joseph Smith' "translation". You keep beating your head against a wall trying to find a way for all of this to make sense within the context of "the church being true", and suddenly one day you realize that only context that allows it all to make sense is if the church is NOT true.

_mentalgymnast · Post by **_mentalgymnast** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:55 am

beastie wrote:God answering someone's prayer about lost car keys and yet ignoring the prayers of others in dire circumstances is just one of many examples of how it all makes sense only if there is no god in the first place.

I think you're handing too much over to God. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, there are other ways of approaching "the lost car keys" rather than putting this example or any other (pain, evil, disparity, etc.) squarely in God's lap...all the time.

Regards,
MG

Post by **_wenglund** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 5:01 pm

beastie wrote:God answering someone's prayer about lost car keys and yet ignoring the prayers of others in dire circumstances is just one of many examples of how it all makes sense only if there is no god in the first place.

It's kind of like trying to work through the Mormon controversies when still a believer. Why did God allow Joseph Smith to marry other men's wives? Why is there no archaeological evidence for the Book of Mormon? Why does the Book of Abraham papyrii not match Joseph Smith' "translation". You keep beating your head against a wall trying to find a way for all of this to make sense within the context of "the church being true", and suddenly one day you realize that only context that allows it all to make sense is if the church is NOT true.

There are many of us (some far more intelligent and rational than us both) who have found ways to sensibly answer the "problem of evil" (in its various forms--such as the lost keys vs starvation in Africa disparity bantied about here), and who have found faith-retaining, sensible answers to the questions you just posed about the Church.

In other words, rational people can rationally differ (in diametrically opposing ways) on these issues.

Now I realize that soliptic thinkers (those that believe their reasoning to be the only reasoning that is sensible) may balk at the very thought. But thanfully the rest of us are not bound by that articificial limitation. ;-)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Post by **_The Nehor** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:47 pm

Bond...James Bond wrote:I always thought the "God answers all prayers" thing I was told in my Protestant upbringing to be fairly ridiculous from age 7 or so.....honestly what would God care about someone finding their car keys? He's God (for Godssakes) I always figured he had bigger fish to fry than helping people find stamps or their keys or the remote.

God's resources aren't limited. How many fish can God fry simultaneously? I'm pretty sure that when I pray he's not listening to 1000 other prayers (many probably of much greater urgency) and ignoring mine.

Post by **_Yong Xi** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:12 pm

The Nehor wrote:
Bond...James Bond wrote:I always thought the "God answers all prayers" thing I was told in my Protestant upbringing to be fairly ridiculous from age 7 or so.....honestly what would God care about someone finding their car keys? He's God (for Godssakes) I always figured he had bigger fish to fry than helping people find stamps or their keys or the remote.

God's resources aren't limited. How many fish can God fry simultaneously? I'm pretty sure that when I pray he's not listening to 1000 other prayers (many probably of much greater urgency) and ignoring mine.

Are you saying he has unlimited bandwith? Does He process in a linear fashion? FIFO, LIFO?

For all we know He has limited resources. That is why things fall through the cracks. Maybe He is just "down" alot. You can only expand so fast!

Does he ever run short of wives? Will He run out of matter to create "worlds without end"?

Post by **_Bond...James Bond** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:16 pm

The Nehor wrote:God's resources aren't limited. How many fish can God fry simultaneously? I'm pretty sure that when I pray he's not listening to 1000 other prayers (many probably of much greater urgency) and ignoring mine.

Yeah....sounds like a great Guy (in the sky). Ignoring urgent prayers....but helping people find car keys.