Politics, The Chosen Land, and Why we Fight

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_Jason Bourne
_Emeritus
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Re: Politics, The Chosen Land, and Why we Fight

Post by _Jason Bourne »

It seems to me like America (The United States), is not really the Chosen Land it was/is supposed to be.


Can you define what you think it was supposed to be?


Do the leaders of the church still think America is a great nation, directed by Godad He inspired its leaders? Or, do they think it may be about ready to fall? (Where the constitution will hang by a thread and the Priesthood will save it)?


I think the LDS leaders still think highly of the US and do not view it as on the brink of disaster. I think the idea of the hang by a thread thing and the Elders saving it is more a Mormon cultural myth that was taken to far. If I recall correctly Joseph Smith said that the contitution would hang by a thread and if it was saved at all it would be by the Elders, but I did not say it would be saved. But I think that this may have been more anti US rhetoric.

What do you all think about the current state of affairs... has democracy lost to capitalism?



Well first of all I do not think democracy and capitalism are in competition and in fact I think the two can be compatible.

Are the wealthy few, running the country?



Sometimes I think it may seem like that but on the other hand think about this. Bill Clinton was not wealthy and really rose from poverty. So did Nixon. Reagan started pretty poor too. Today most millionaires are first generation. Most politicians are still fairly ordinary. Some have silver spoons in their mouth like the governor of Utah and our current president. Maybe they are all bought. Who knows.

But also you need to remember that the US founding fathers were all relatively wealthy for their day.

Along these lines, I also reread an article by Nibley, Breakthroughs I Would Like to See, where he argues that the church must return to the Law of Consecration in order to prepare for Zion. He uses the D&C to support his understanding that this law is required by all Saints.

in my opinion, the church seems to be continually moving toward more power, money, eliticism, wealth, etc. etc. etc. My observation is that there is a move away from the idea of communal living. Is the Law of Consecration no longer taught as something that will exist? Is Nibley's interpretation of the D&C wrong?

Any thoughts?


Hugh Nibley was pretty radical in his views about wealth and material things and was pretty bold about promoting them. He had some good ideas. In the Church though we seem to portray a double standard. We condemn materiality but then parade the successful members like hood ornaments. Many leaders are succesful in business or their profession. This may be partly because the skills that got them to the points they are in their career apply well to leading in the Church. Also, they may have more discretionary time.

One last note, I know Pres Kimball was pretty harsh about military might and the use of it. He gave a talk once called I think, Gods of Steel, where he condemned the US for relying on military might to give comfort and a sense of protection.
_Jason Bourne
_Emeritus
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Re: US of A

Post by _Jason Bourne »

aussieguy55 wrote:I watch PBS Newshour of an afternoon afterwork. Often at the end of the program they have a honour roll of soldiers killed. Many of them are so young and all that for a war based on lies. You talk about the war in Asia, that was also based on lies.Its odd how the Right demonise the left. Americans have hated the French and yet their women seem to be doing fine (Why French Women don't get Fat) Ironic the wealthiest country has a problem with health (obesiety). I have been reading Ghost Planes (redition to countries that do torture - the US doesn't) and The Greatest Story ever Told. Both reveal the lies told by your administration. I hope to God Obama or Hilary win.


I just love it when someone for a sparsely populated little country that is insignificant on the world stage, offers nothing at all to solve the major world problems, is so internally focused that they are better able to deal with their own issues because they do nothing much for the rest of the world goes on major rant. Australia has what, 20 million people, less then each of the three most populous states in the USA.

How much money did Australia put up for the Tsunami victims a few years ago, both as a nation and with personal donations. What does Australia contribute to world GDP? Really Aussie what does your county do for the world?

The US is far from perfect and does have dirty hands over many things. But there has never been a nation that has done as much for the world in a beneficial way as the USA.
_Ray A

Re: US of A

Post by _Ray A »

Jason Bourne wrote:
How much money did Australia put up for the Tsunami victims a few years ago, both as a nation and with personal donations.


$1 billion from the government. Not sure about personal donations.


Jason Bourne wrote:Really Aussie what does your county do for the world?


Make plenty of beer. (Not answering for Noel, of course.)

Jason Bourne wrote:But there has never been a nation that has done as much for the world in a beneficial way as the USA.


I doubt it.
_barrelomonkeys
_Emeritus
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Re: US of A

Post by _barrelomonkeys »

Ray! Love your signature. Who is always on your mind?

Man, I love that song.
_Ray A

Re: US of A

Post by _Ray A »

barrelomonkeys wrote:Ray! Love your signature. Who is always on your mind?

Man, I love that song.


Been one of my favourites for years. I like the Elvis Presley version too, but the Pet Shop Boys brought it alive.

No one has been on my mind for years. Done with relationships. Freedom is too good.
_barrelomonkeys
_Emeritus
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Re: US of A

Post by _barrelomonkeys »

Ray A wrote:
barrelomonkeys wrote:Ray! Love your signature. Who is always on your mind?

Man, I love that song.


Been one of my favourites for years. I like the Elvis Presley version too, but the Pet Shop Boys brought it alive.

No one has been on my mind for years. Done with relationships. Freedom is too good.


Oh. Okay. :)

Well it's one of my favs too. Nice pick!
_KimberlyAnn
_Emeritus
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Re: US of A

Post by _KimberlyAnn »

barrelomonkeys wrote:
Ray A wrote:
barrelomonkeys wrote:Ray! Love your signature. Who is always on your mind?

Man, I love that song.


Been one of my favourites for years. I like the Elvis Presley version too, but the Pet Shop Boys brought it alive.

No one has been on my mind for years. Done with relationships. Freedom is too good.


Oh. Okay. :)

Well it's one of my favs too. Nice pick!


Willie Nelson sings it, too.

I understand your reasoning, Ray, but it's nice to have someone special on your mind, I think. And to be that person always on someone else's mind...

KA
_barrelomonkeys
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Re: US of A

Post by _barrelomonkeys »

KimberlyAnn wrote:
Willie Nelson sings it, too.

I understand your reasoning, Ray, but it's nice to have someone special on your mind, I think. And to be that person always on someone else's mind...

KA


Ha! I was just listening to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3DXyfL3HX0


*ray, you are on my mind sometimes. I hope you're doing okay. And if I prayed I'd pray for you to be safe on the job. I hope you can find someone special to have on your mind. :) *
_KimberlyAnn
_Emeritus
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Re: US of A

Post by _KimberlyAnn »

barrelomonkeys wrote:
KimberlyAnn wrote:
Willie Nelson sings it, too.

I understand your reasoning, Ray, but it's nice to have someone special on your mind, I think. And to be that person always on someone else's mind...

KA


Ha! I was just listening to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3DXyfL3HX0


*ray, you are on my mind sometimes. I hope you're doing okay. And if I prayed I'd pray for you to be safe on the job. I hope you can find someone special to have on your mind. :) *


Thanks, Book of Mormon! Willie's version is my favorite!

I know Ray thinks I'm awful, but I have several times hoped he had a safe shift out driving that cab. It's dangerous work.

KA
_barrelomonkeys
_Emeritus
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Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:00 pm

Re: US of A

Post by _barrelomonkeys »

KimberlyAnn wrote:


Thanks, Book of Mormon! Willie's version is my favorite!

I know Ray thinks I'm awful, but I have several times hoped he had a safe shift out driving that cab. It's dangerous work.

KA


I really like this version too KA. On the 3rd listen now.

If Ray thinks you are awful he doesn't know you very well. :)
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