Little girl has her mic turned off during F&T meeting

[_Lemmie]

Price of tea in china? You know what else members do, watch porn! I said in my first post about this that old habits die hard. Doesn't change the objective fact that the leadership is trying to rid the culture of this behavior, which is the point...

Actually, in your first post in this thread, you said this, which really makes me doubt you are objectively considering the situation:

And there is also probably more information than meets the eye, like the leadership/ward may have already had a history of certain behaviors with this girl and her family.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=46320&p=1060067&view=show#p1060067

That's quite an assumption to make, "probably."

Note that I said "in my first post about this," not "in my first post in this thread."

Who said you didn't? What's your point?

My point was that in your first post on this thread you made the following assumption about the girl's family that weakened your subsequent arguments:

And there is also probably more information than meets the eye, like the leadership/ward may have already had a history of certain behaviors with this girl and her family.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

IDK. I do know everyone seems to be skipping over the part the girl stated she wanted to do this in case there was a youth in her ward that was secretly gay. She wanted to show that person they had a voice.

This is a hugely important point you made. Maybe more importantly, what if there was an adult there that needed to hear that? Perhaps a Gay adult?

We had an adult homosexual commit suicide in my home Ward back in the 80's. He was a sweet man who fostered kids, but lived alone. Then one Sunday he wasn't there any more...

- Doc

[_Lemmie]

Plus, let's put this all in context. The church is a tiny organization. This isn't like being a black person in the 1950s. Not even close. It's in insult to those who had to endure true suffering in times past, civil rights movement, women's suffrage, etc., all that stuff in the history books, comparing that stuff with a gay kid in the modern LDS church in 2017 is an absolute outrage. There is a huge world out there of people who aren't Mormon! Literally just walk across the street, hop on Facebook, it takes no more than a mouse click to find a completely different social group that will accept you. So in that context, what is the point of agitating within the church? Agitating for what? For freedom? It already exists, walk out the door you dope.

This is an interesting perspective, one you have but one which I doubt a 12 year old would have, nor apparently many others.

We had an adult homosexual commit suicide in my home Ward back in the 80's. He was a sweet man who fostered kids, but lived alone. Then one Sunday he wasn't there any more...

How do you explain to a suicidal gay youth, since birth surrounded and brainwashed by the culture of the church, feeling their life is so full of sin that they have no other option than to kill themselves, "buck up, sissypants, Water Dog says 'being a black person in the 1950s' was way worse." ??

I also think your advice to "walk out the door, you dope," is particularly thoughtless, given the multitude of stories people have told here of family relationships that are severely, some irrevocably damaged by "walk[ing] out the door."

[_Lemmie]

Ironically it would seem she accomplished exactly the opposite. She demonstrated that, no, they don't have a voice in the LDS church. She showed that such a youth probably should remain in the closet lest they get their mic shutdown. She gave these kids a reason to despair. And also I'm sure caused all sorts of behind-closed-doors chatter, so some closet gay kid (all over the country) is probably hearing their parents talk trash about the gays as a result of this. And by that I mean they gave people negative things to talk about... a negative association.

What utter nonsense. Your cause and effect statements are meaningless. The 12-year-old did NOT give kids "a reason to despair," that reason was already there. The event didn't CAUSE a "closet gay kid" to hear "parents talk trash." This situation did NOT give "people negative things to talk about," those issues were already there.

Your arguments are becoming illogical in the extreme. It sounds like you are suggesting that if people just wouldn't talk about the negative things, then the negative things wouldn't have impact? That's nonsensical.

[_candygal]

All we can do is look at the evidence and make our own judgement. I'll agree to disagree. To be clear though, I'm not suggesting some grand conspiracy theory. What happened happened. My response is more along the lines of a big eye roll. This is no different then Dehlin and his candlelight vigils. It has nothing whatsoever to do with my agreeing or disagreeing with the contents of her little speech. I'm simply rolling my eyes. Ok there Rosa Parks, you sure showed them (insert eye roll).

It's just r*******.

Everybody in exmo internet is sucking each other off over this thing, meanwhile the TBMs don't give a ____. Nor should they. Because, again, it's literally r*******. A little girl got up and said some things which common sense should have told her, and especially her parents, were completely inappropriate for the audience, she very very predictabley got politely asked to sit down - big deal - where's the fire? And instead of just not going to church anymore, lol, of course, let's post it on the internet! How convenient that a video was made. It wasn't made for this purpose though, no way, we just wanted to capture a memory of our Little Wonder Woman. But it sure is convenient though, isn't it, yes, please slap our 12 year old daughters face and name all over the ____ internet.

I'm honestly quite shocked by your response. I get that TBMs won't register this. Hell, they don't register anything beyond what they read on KSL and even that's a stretch sometimes. But surely you've been around long enough to know some Mormons are in fact trying to change the culture from within. It's not as simple as "why don't they stop going to church" for some people. Some people do in fact feel a mission to change the culture from within. I personally agree with you that it's a waste of time, and more often than not, people like this do eventually get to that point and leave. But, some try and take a stab at it thinking they can make a difference. When they realize the church doesn't give two ____, they'll leave and fade from the memories of the TBMs.

Call her Rosa Parks all you want. I like the Rosa Parks of the world because they create events like this to evaluate our cultures and societies. Saying it's r******* seems a bit extreme and I'm not sure why taking it out on a little girl, coached or not, seems appropriate to you. But, whatevs. If it makes you feel better to pick on little girls, go for it.

Wishing I could rep this post. I so agree. Edited to add that you guys haven't seen anything like Scott Lloyd's response on this on MD&D...It is astounding!!

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Ironically it would seem she accomplished exactly the opposite. She demonstrated that, no, they don't have a voice in the LDS church. She showed that such a youth probably should remain in the closet lest they get their mic shutdown. She gave these kids a reason to despair. And also I'm sure caused all sorts of behind-closed-doors chatter, so some closet gay kid (all over the country) is probably hearing their parents talk trash about the gays as a result of this. And by that I mean they gave people negative things to talk about... a negative association. Because this was not an example of good behavior that is worth following. Hanging around in an organization you completely disagree with, one that is even abusive to your kids, purely for the purpose of acting like a kind of spy and agitating for regime change, etc., this is an act of hostility. People in the church are not inspired by this behavior, they are insulted by it.

Can you explain to me how dependents are just going to walk out the door?

- Doc

[_Jersey Girl]

Ironically it would seem she accomplished exactly the opposite. She demonstrated that, no, they don't have a voice in the LDS church. She showed that such a youth probably should remain in the closet lest they get their mic shutdown. She gave these kids a reason to despair. And also I'm sure caused all sorts of behind-closed-doors chatter, so some closet gay kid (all over the country) is probably hearing their parents talk trash about the gays as a result of this. And by that I mean they gave people negative things to talk about... a negative association.

What utter nonsense. Your cause and effect statements are meaningless. The 12-year-old did NOT give kids "a reason to despair," that reason was already there. The event didn't CAUSE a "closet gay kid" to hear "parents talk trash." This situation did NOT give "people negative things to talk about," those issues were already there.

Your arguments are becoming illogical in the extreme. It sounds like you are suggesting that if people just wouldn't talk about the negative things, then the negative things wouldn't have impact? That's nonsensical.

Rather than reason to despair, her efforts may actually have given some youth there a reason to open a dialogue with their loved ones or adults a reason to dialogue with their children and each other.

[_moksha]

Did you know that an analog to this discussion has been going on 28 pages at the Great and Specious Board and the thread had not been shut down. I do think at least one advocate for the young girl had been banned, but that is not unexpected.

Even FAIRMormon has issued a position paper in favor of turning off the microphone for young Savanah's testimony. Guess a video shining a light on LDS policy can do that.

Cinepro asked the question of whether this Beehive girl has been excommunicated yet. I imagine that question is under discussion at her local Stake level and perhaps it has already received promptings from Elder Oaks. Can't imagine any excommunication happening until the news dies down. Since this is an interesting story, hopefully, we will hear what develops. My guess is that she will be made to feel so unwelcome that she might voluntarily resign. Rosa Parks chose to leave Alabama and move to Detroit after the boycott. Maybe Motor City could provide some safety and love for young Savanah too.

[Guest]

For a Church that proclaims free agency, dialogue, and invites examination it sure does love to shut crap down every chance it gets when it doesn't go their way. For people who mew on and on about the Church being left alone it sure doesn't fly when it won't leave others alone.

Again. WD explain to me how dependents are just going to walk out the door?

The Church is an absolutist organization and only the facade of freedom or choice or agency exists. They demonstrate this over and over again. It's about securing the future of some nepotistic families and their connected friends. It's always been that way, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. To cede control over the people would result in their disempowerment.

- Doc

[_Black Moclips]

All I know is that I mentioned this girl and her testimony to my wife on Friday (she hadn't heard anything about it), but by Sunday, she said her Facebook was lit up with controversy surrounding it from members she is still in contact with and family etc. She said about half were defending the church and about half were sympathetic to the girl. So its definitely getting people talking.

After listening and reading the full transcript of the testimony, it was relatively benign. Compared to all the dumb crap I've heard over the years in F&T meeting, it was nothing. We used to have a schizophrenic drug addict get up every month and just ramble for 20 minutes about crazy random things.............stuff you couldn't even mumble Amen to.........and no one ever got up to tell that dude to sit down.