You have to bear in mind Joseph was “new to market”. He had to think up ways to be different from the existing religions of the day. Of which there were a few as there was a religious fever in that time and place. He needed to be unique and stand out from the crowd. “The Restoration” narrative was just Joseph telling people all the other religions weren’t as good as his new one.Limnor wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2026 2:39 amI mean that’s just it—if they had left things the same they would have had that. Why corrupt something that already gave you a patriarchy if that’s what you wanted?I Have Questions wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2026 2:35 amI’m of the opinion it was to legitimise maintaining a patriarchy.
And what would the doctrine of the Trinity have to do with a patriarchy?
Husbands/fathers as spiritual leaders in the home
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Re: Husbands/fathers as spiritual leaders in the home
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
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Re: Husbands/fathers as spiritual leaders in the home
That’s a good point, and I think it is supported in the book. For example, I see Joseph reflected in Amalickiah’s flattery and promises to people.I Have Questions wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2026 3:11 amYou have to bear in mind Joseph was “new to market”. He had to think up ways to be different from the existing religions of the day. Of which there were a few as there was a religious fever in that time and place. He needed to be unique and stand out from the crowd. “The Restoration” narrative was just Joseph telling people all the other religions weren’t as good as his new one.
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Re: Husbands/fathers as spiritual leaders in the home
Yep. That's it! That's why he went through everything he went through in his life and ended up getting killed for his efforts. Maybe it was better/smarter that the other 'new comers' at the time played it safe.I Have Questions wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2026 3:11 am
You have to bear in mind Joseph was “new to market”. He had to think up ways to be different from the existing religions of the day.
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MG
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Re: Husbands/fathers as spiritual leaders in the home
You can see the pattern later on too, whenever Joseph felt his power slipping, he came up with something spectacular. That’s how the First Vision came about, he had need of something to re-establish himself in the sector. A new product development, as it were.Limnor wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2026 3:22 amThat’s a good point, and I think it is supported in the book. For example, I see Joseph reflected in Amalickiah’s flattery and promises to people.I Have Questions wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2026 3:11 amYou have to bear in mind Joseph was “new to market”. He had to think up ways to be different from the existing religions of the day. Of which there were a few as there was a religious fever in that time and place. He needed to be unique and stand out from the crowd. “The Restoration” narrative was just Joseph telling people all the other religions weren’t as good as his new one.
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
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Re: Husbands/fathers as spiritual leaders in the home
Isn't speculation wonderful? It gives you the opportunity, if you so choose, to dig deeply...think deeply...and reason out the world, religion, politics, etc.I Have Questions wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2026 9:38 amYou can see the pattern later on too, whenever Joseph felt his power slipping, he came up with something spectacular. That’s how the First Vision came about, he had need of something to re-establish himself in the sector. A new product development, as it were.
Keep it up!
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MG
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Re: Husbands/fathers as spiritual leaders in the home
Investigators may find that some speculation is more plausible than others. For instance, the idea that Joseph reflected his own experiences and companions in a book seems much more plausible than the claim that an ancient record, supposedly engraved on gold plates, was translated by looking at a stone in a hat, often without the plates even being present.
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Re: Husbands/fathers as spiritual leaders in the home
The church tends to get most of its convert baptisms nowadays from parts of the world that have more limited access to online resources and where they have had less exposure to Mormonism. Newer markets, as it were.Limnor wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2026 7:41 pmInvestigators may find that some speculation is more plausible than others. For instance, the idea that Joseph reflected his own experiences and companions in a book seems much more plausible than the claim that an ancient record, supposedly engraved on gold plates, was translated by looking at a stone in a hat, often without the plates even being present.
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
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Re: Husbands/fathers as spiritual leaders in the home
Again, isn't speculation and personal interpretation of all the information available wonderful? As we think deeply and use the brain which sits on top of our heads we can come to tentative conclusions.Limnor wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2026 7:41 pmInvestigators may find that some speculation is more plausible than others. For instance, the idea that Joseph reflected his own experiences and companions in a book seems much more plausible than the claim that an ancient record, supposedly engraved on gold plates, was translated by looking at a stone in a hat, often without the plates even being present.
I'm a bit wary of placing a 100% value judgement on many things. One poster, recently, seemed to have that degree of confidence. That's fine...but it should be pointed out that again, that confidence levels are often based on partial/pure speculation.
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MG
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Re: Husbands/fathers as spiritual leaders in the home
African nations, for example. Although Starlink is making a dent. But yeah, not everyone has an internet connection.I Have Questions wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2026 8:35 pmThe church tends to get most of its convert baptisms nowadays from parts of the world that have more limited access to online resources and where they have had less exposure to Mormonism. Newer markets, as it were.Limnor wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2026 7:41 pmInvestigators may find that some speculation is more plausible than others. For instance, the idea that Joseph reflected his own experiences and companions in a book seems much more plausible than the claim that an ancient record, supposedly engraved on gold plates, was translated by looking at a stone in a hat, often without the plates even being present.
Sadly, this results in some people not having access to the church website and scriptures. But I'm sure it's getting better thanks to Elon.
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MG