If plates then God

[MG 2.0]

So, IHAQ, on a scale of 1to10 what do you think the likelihood is that Joseph Smith wrote the Book of Mormon on his own? Why?

1 being very likely and 10 being very unlikely.

And on a scale of 1to10 how important do you think the answer to the previous question is?

1 being very important and 10 being not important at all.

Do you believe that the title of this thread, “If Plates Then God” has any correlation/connection to the answer of these two questions?

Regards,
MG
BUMP

Others?

One last try. This is it folks!

Game on. C’mon.

Regards,
MG

[Philo Sofee]

The primary temptation Joseph had to overcome when initially shown the plates was to squelch the impulse to use the plates as a source of gaining immediate wealth. This was one of the reasons he had to wait four years before he could be trusted to obtain the plates.

If you’ve done your reading assignment you will see that Joseph had tutoring sessions with Moroni in which he was given instructions and one might imagine some inkling(s) as to the historical narrative contained on the plates.

Regards,
MG

"and one might imagine" is an interesting way to say "based on no evidence."

Yes, Mormons always have to argue from the no evidence angle. No gold plates, no archaeology of Nephites or Lamanites, no horses, so go with tapirs, no steel, cureloms or cumoms, a missing scroll to the Book of Abraham since there is no Book of Abraham on the papyri, no evidence Angel Moroni actually exists to tutor Joseph Smith. The actual evidence refutes their claims, so arguing from no evidence is their only option.

[tagriffy]

So, IHAQ, on a scale of 1to10 what do you think the likelihood is that Joseph Smith wrote the Book of Mormon on his own? Why?

1 being very likely and 10 being very unlikely.

And on a scale of 1to10 how important do you think the answer to the previous question is?

1 being very important and 10 being not important at all.

Do you believe that the title of this thread, “If Plates Then God” has any correlation/connection to the answer of these two questions?

Regards,
MG
BUMP

Others?

One last try. This is it folks!

Game on. C’mon.

Regards,
MG

2 and 10 respectively.

[Marcus]

"and one might imagine" is an interesting way to say "based on no evidence."

Yes, Mormons always have to argue from the no evidence angle. No gold plates, no archaeology of Nephites or Lamanites, no horses, so go with tapirs, no steel, cureloms or cumoms, a missing scroll to the Book of Abraham since there is no Book of Abraham on the papyri, no evidence Angel Moroni actually exists to tutor Joseph Smith. The actual evidence refutes their claims, so arguing from no evidence is their only option.

Well said. And since, as you mentioned, "the actual evidence refutes their claims," the corollary is also having to argue AGAINST the evidence there is, to support the 'no evidence' position.

What a losing proposition.

[MG 2.0]

"and one might imagine" is an interesting way to say "based on no evidence."

Yes, Mormons always have to argue from the no evidence angle. No gold plates, no archaeology of Nephites or Lamanites, no horses, so go with tapirs, no steel, cureloms or cumoms, a missing scroll to the Book of Abraham since there is no Book of Abraham on the papyri, no evidence Angel Moroni actually exists to tutor Joseph Smith. The actual evidence refutes their claims, so arguing from no evidence is their only option.

Hi Philo,

On a scale of 1to10 what do you think the likelihood is that Joseph Smith wrote the Book of Mormon on his own? Why?

1 being very likely and 10 being very unlikely.

And on a scale of 1to10 how important do you think the answer to the previous question is?

1 being very important and 10 being not important at all.

Do you believe that the title of this thread, “If Plates Then God” has any correlation/connection to the answer of these two questions?

The reason I ask you to respond is that it seems as though the evidence you’re looking for either is or is not dependent on what you believe the answers to be in regards to the questions being asked. It’s back to the chicken and the egg I brought up earlier.

tagriffy believes Joseph Smith wrote the Book of Mormon on his own despite the evidence that shows it is unlikely that he could have done so.

So we’ve had one response thus far to my survey. Care to respond?

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

I’ll post this again for reference. Click on hand out link for access to the PDF.

https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/blo ... nd-the-gap

Regards,
MG

[Shulem]

Hi Philo,

Leave Philo alone, Goddamnit! This is Shulem, and you're in big trouble now. (Don't call him a worm)

On a scale of 1to10 what do you think the likelihood is that Joseph Smith wrote the Book of Mormon on his own? Why?

1 being very likely and 10 being very unlikely.

First of all, Joseph Smith did not write the Book of Mormon. The persons who wrote the Book of Mormon are Martin Harris, Oliver Cowdery, and other dutiful scribes appointed to the task given them directly from the author, Joseph Smith who dictated the content of every single word they wrote.

(10) Joseph Smith was the sole author of every word he dictated. Everything in the story was mentally produced, compiled, and presented by Joseph Smith with much careful thought and many years of contemplation in preparing to author his book.

And on a scale of 1to10 how important do you think the answer to the previous question is?

1 being very important and 10 being not important at all.

(1) I think it's very important to understand that Joseph Smith was the author and genius behind his book.

Do you believe that the title of this thread, “If Plates Then God” has any correlation/connection to the answer of these two questions?

I bear you my testimony that I know there were no gold plates. They did not exist. I know that more than you think you know there were plates! My testimony is stronger then yours!

There were no gold plates buried in the hill atop Cumorah. That was a lie. The only chicken that ever existed was Joseph Smith who laid an egg called The Book of Mormon.

I so testify,

Shulem

[Marcus]

Yes, Mormons always have to argue from the no evidence angle. No gold plates, no archaeology of Nephites or Lamanites, no horses, so go with tapirs, no steel, cureloms or cumoms, a missing scroll to the Book of Abraham since there is no Book of Abraham on the papyri, no evidence Angel Moroni actually exists to tutor Joseph Smith. The actual evidence refutes their claims, so arguing from no evidence is their only option.

...The reason I ask you to respond is that it seems as though the evidence you’re looking for either is or is not dependent on what you believe the answers to be in regards to the questions being asked. It’s back to the chicken and the egg I brought up earlier.

Are you suggesting that philo has a belief first, and that he then looks for 'evidence' that supports his belief?

I believe Muhlestein has publicly stated he does that in researching his apologetic topics, but in general, it's not the way research is done. Or, at least not ethically done.

And especially for Philo, in reading his work it's clear he does not start with fixed assumptions. Suggesting otherwise is more of your bias showing through.

tagriffy believes Joseph Smith wrote the Book of Mormon on his own despite the evidence that shows it is unlikely that he could have done so.

Yes tagriffy voted that way, but the part in blue is your opinion that really shouldn't be tacked onto a poll reponse if you want to clearly communicate the results. What you're indicating is that you think he's wrong, and not only that, you think he's incompetently wrong. that is absolutely and completely an incorrect interpretation of tagriffy's position.

[Everybody Wang Chung]

Bless your heart, MG.

[Marcus]

Hi Philo,

Leave Philo alone, Goddamnit! This is Shulem, and you're in big trouble now. (Don't call him a worm)

On a scale of 1to10 what do you think the likelihood is that Joseph Smith wrote the Book of Mormon on his own? Why?

1 being very likely and 10 being very unlikely.

First of all, Joseph Smith did not write the Book of Mormon. The persons who wrote the Book of Mormon are Martin Harris, Oliver Cowdery, and other dutiful scribes appointed to the task given them directly from the author, Joseph Smith who dictated the content of every single word they wrote.

(10) Joseph Smith was the sole author of every word he dictated. Everything in the story was mentally produced, compiled, and presented by Joseph Smith with much careful thought and many years of contemplation in preparing to author his book.

And on a scale of 1to10 how important do you think the answer to the previous question is?

1 being very important and 10 being not important at all.

(1) I think it's very important to understand that Joseph Smith was the author and genius behind his book.

Do you believe that the title of this thread, “If Plates Then God” has any correlation/connection to the answer of these two questions?

I bear you my testimony that I know there were no gold plates. They did not exist. I know that more than you think you know there were plates! My testimony is stronger then yours!

There were no gold plates buried in the hill atop Cumorah. That was a lie. The only chicken that ever existed was Joseph Smith who laid an egg called The Book of Mormon.

I so testify,

Shulem

love your response Shulem!!

I might only add that while Smith is indeed the sole author of every word he dictated, a minor clarification might be that he, um, borrowed more than a few of those words from other sources before he lumped them together into his storyline, and then dictated them.

(Kind of like how a certain blogger is the sole poster of the {way too frequently plagiarized} words on his blog. : D )