Mitt Romney busted on TV for lying about Mormon doctrine!!

[_Who Knows]

You force Second Coming conditions into a situation that is completely different and then demand that Romney address the different situation because your definition of it is couched in the same tarms that are reserved for the second coming.

Christ's return to the US is directly related to the millenium. That's where it all begins. That's where Christ 'takes over'.

You know exactly what "glorius return to the earth" means and so does Romney. AAA will be completely unknown to the world and the church at large.

Well, I used that phrase, not steph. Mitt was simply asked if Christ will return to the US and rule the millenium. Whether his return to the US is unknown to the world at large is irrelevant. The US is where he goes before kicking off his millenial rule.

But Christ has already returned to the US several times, and none of it has anythign at all to do with his Second Coming. Why is AAA different?

Because that is where he will meet with Adam, and take over the reigns, to usher in the millenium.

Gotta get back to work, i'm done with this tit for tat crap for now.

[_Runtu]

Christ's return to the US is directly related to the millenium. That's where it all begins. That's where Christ 'takes over'.

True, but most LDS people do not consider Adam-ondi-Ahman to be the Second Coming, but rather a preparatory event, hence its privacy.

Well, I used that phrase, not steph. Mitt was simply asked if Christ will return to the US and rule the millenium. Whether his return to the US is unknown to the world at large is irrelevant. The US is where he goes before kicking off his millenial rule.

True. I really don't think we're all that far apart here. Maybe it's just me, but if someone had asked me if the Mormons believe that Jesus is going to come to America at His second coming, I would have said no.

[_guy sajer]

Christ's return to the US is directly related to the millenium. That's where it all begins. That's where Christ 'takes over'.

True, but most LDS people do not consider Adam-ondi-Ahman to be the Second Coming, but rather a preparatory event, hence its privacy.

Well, I used that phrase, not steph. Mitt was simply asked if Christ will return to the US and rule the millenium. Whether his return to the US is unknown to the world at large is irrelevant. The US is where he goes before kicking off his millenial rule.

True. I really don't think we're all that far apart here. Maybe it's just me, but if someone had asked me if the Mormons believe that Jesus is going to come to America at His second coming, I would have said no.

Interesting the level of debate on a doctrine that is so self-evident that any active Mormon should know it backwards and forwards.

[_Jason Bourne]

And again, I assert that Mitt's failure to mention Christ's return to the US - in answer to that exact question posed to him, is a blatant lie

A lbatent lie?? Oh puhlease. Your feigned indignation and false piety is over the top.

Ok, I will grant that he should have said

"Oh yes George, LDS believe that Jesus will appear in Jerusalem and America and that there will be two seats of power for the world, Zion, located in America, and Jerusalem in Israel. What this has to do with anything about my presidential bid I am not sure. Oh, yes George, the Muslim issue. Well George since the radical Muslim hates both the US and Israel and they do not believe in Jesus' divinity anyway I am not sure what difference it will make. Thank you George."

[_Jason Bourne]

Hi Jason...

I'm sorry but to suggest the LDS church has the SAME doctrine regarding the second coming is absolutly incorrect.

Unless you can show me that other Christian churches believe the New Jerusalem is in America, Mitt was incorrect and/or misleading.

One could get away with saying... the doctrine is similar, or include, "we also believe"... or something but to say the doctrine is the same is just not so.

~dancer~


"That Zion (The New Jerusalem) will be built upon this the American continent." Please document other Christian churches agreeing with this LDS doctrine.

Fine, similar, etc.

But what the heck does this really have to do with him running for president.? You know and I know that this is just the chance to make him look bad or different or whatever.

[_Yoda]

Maybe it's just me, but if someone had asked me if the Mormons believe that Jesus is going to come to America at His second coming, I would have said no.

Interesting...I would say "yes", and have said "yes".

I don't get funny stares from any of my evangelical Christian friends regarding that answer, either.

I think that in order to clarify things, Romney could have added that we, like other Christian religions, also believe that Christ will appear at the Mount of Olives. We also believe that He will appear in the US.

What is wrong with saying that?

Most evangelical Christian religions believe that Christ will appear throughout the world during this time. I don't see how we are any different as far as that is concerned. GIMR...correct me if I'm wrong here.

Frankly, I think the rest of Romney's answer was great. He probably should have just given that part of his answer and left the rest of the intricacies alone. The bottom line is, although there are differences in details regarding different types of faith the world over, most religions do have similar core moral values. It is these values that, as President of the US, he should be focusing on.

[_Who Knows]

Well, I guess you guys view the events as 'independent' of each other. While I view them as one in the same, ie., Christ's visit to the US is what gets the millenium ball rolling.

In other words, if the 2nd coming/millenium events were placed on a timeline, Christ's visit to the US would be included on that timeline (at the beginning). To me, it looks like you're arguing that Christ's visit to the US does not even belong on that timeline, and that it's a separate/distinct event?

JB - I'd agree, if Mitt said something like you suggested, we wouldn't even be here discussing this. It's his failure to even address the 'Christ's visit to the US' when he gave his answer, and complete dismissal of it, combined with saying that LDS beliefs were the same as what other christians believe, that I find deceptive.

[_Jason Bourne]

Well, I guess you guys view the events as 'independent' of each other. While I view them as one in the same, ie., Christ's visit to the US is what gets the millenium ball rolling.

In other words, if the 2nd coming/millenium events were placed on a timeline, Christ's visit to the US would be included on that timeline (at the beginning). To me, it looks like you're arguing that Christ's visit to the US does not even belong on that timeline, and that it's a separate/distinct event?

JB - I'd agree, if Mitt said something like you suggested, we wouldn't even be here discussing this. It's his failure to even address the 'Christ's visit to the US' when he gave his answer, and complete dismissal of it, combined with saying that LDS beliefs were the same as what other christians believe, that I find deceptive.

Fair enough.

[_Runtu]

Interesting the level of debate on a doctrine that is so self-evident that any active Mormon should know it backwards and forwards.

I don't really care one way or the other. I just don't think that quick answer was a "blatant lie." Hell, I'm not a Mormon anymore, not a Republican, and not planning to vote for Romney, and I don't think this is a big deal. Am I missing something?

[_Who Knows]

For Guy - there is a lesson in the Year 5 Primary manual here:

http://www.LDS.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/m ... &hideNav=1

The lesson is on AAA. The purpose of the lesson as stated is:

To help the children look forward to and prepare for the second coming of Jesus Christ and the Millennium.

And I found this bit from the manual pertinent to the discussion:

Adam-ondi-Ahman will also be an important place in the future: near the time of Christ’s second coming, Adam will come again to Adam-ondi-Ahman and hold a great council. All the prophets who have held keys of priesthood authority upon the earth will come to this council to give a report of their work to Adam. Jesus Christ will then come to Adam-ondi-Ahman, and Adam will return the priesthood keys to him. Christ will then return to earth to begin the Millennium, the thousand years when Christ will live on and reign over the earth.

After that, the lesson goes on to talk about the millenium.

So, 1 lesson covers AAA, Christ's return to earth at the US, and the millenium.

Like I said, basic stuff that they cover in primary.

And it also adds to my argument that the events are basically all 1 event - not 2 separate/distinct events - at least as the LDS church teaches it.