Need your opinion

[_Runtu]

Really now, you can't see the position you're in?

You ask for advice on this board about how to deal with your bishop? Take a stand, man. What do you think PPorter, Vegas, Shades or Sajer would do in your position? Cry over their game controller? Come on!

rcrocket

I believe in giving someone the benefit of the doubt, and second chances. Don't worry, if he does it again, I'll say something.

For now, the punishment wouldn't fit the crime.

For what it's worth, I don't see anything wrong in asking advice from people here. As you said, "taking a stand" on a minor issue the first time it happens might be an overreaction. But asking what we think here is not "evil" or "cowardly."

[_Yoda]

4. You're weak by posting evil things about your bishop anonymously yet saying nothing in person. Take a stand, even it is an evil one in abandoning the Church of your ancestry and the faith of your fathers. Be a man, not the knee-knocking weakling you are on this board. Move into my ward and I'll treat you like a man and respect you for your decisions, and enforce them once they are made known to me.

rcrocket

Exactly what kind of "evil things" did he post?

[_ozemc]

worried that I was having a bad influence on her.

I think this is the only thing worth worrying about. That the bishop thinks you are under the influence of Satan is to be expected. Nothing will change that. He might be persuaded not to go around saying that to your family (as I think that's out of place), but nothing will change his mind.

What I think would be more interesting would be to have the bishop explain precisely how you are a bad influence by backing up the claims. And by that I don't mean the symptoms of your wife being unsure. What he needs to put up or shut-up about is whether or not you are exerting pressure on your wife to give up her faith more or less against her will. I seriously doubt you are doing that. I don't think you'd pressure an adult who does not wish to listen to your POV.

That said, I'd also be more concerned with your wife's perception of you and what she teaches the children as well as what the children are being taught about you in church. If anyone is speaking ill of you at church to them, I'd be livid. You are not a deadbeat nor an abuser. You let them attend church as they will. You do not deserve to be ill-spoken of.

Maybe you should consider a letter after you have a few nights to sleep it off so that you can reply as one hurt by the remarks instead of insulted and angry (which is your right, but would likely confirm the bishop's prejudices to himself of you).

Thanks for the kind words abman. I'd like to think I'm a great parent/husband. This forum is basically an outlet for me. I really never even talk about religion outside of this forum. Unless my wife brings it up on the rare occasion. I fully support my wife. I go to SM meeting with her to help her watch the kids (so she can listen in SM). I never question her when she has to do something for her calling. I've never turned down hometeachers, or even said anything negative towards the church to them, or to anyone in the ward. In fact, I'm pretty sure most people don't even know I'm an 'apostate'. They probably just think I'm lazy (since I don't go to sunday school or relief society).

The most important thing in my life is my 3 kids. I really don't even have any hobbies, because I spend pretty much all my free time with them. The only reason I bring this up, is because the last thing I need - and the one thing that will set me off, would be for the bishop (after all of this) to say to my kids that I'm somehow deficient as a parent - when he really has no clue.

Interesting from my perspective that you put it that way, WK. I definitely wish you the best.

As a Never-mo, I sometimes go to my wife's ward to SM, and actually have sat through three straight hours! of church.

I have never disparaged her callings, have actually helped her, and agreed to the Bishopric to be her assistant.

I help her son in his scouting endeavours, and have helped with the linger-longers, etc.

I have welcomed home teachers and missionaries in my home.

I don't know what is said about me behind my back, but most have been very friendly.

I say all that to get to this:

The other night, just before we went to sleep, we were discussing various things in a sort of random way, and somehow the topic of the Book of Mormon and it's translation came up. I mentioned about Joseph Smith and the stone in his hat, and the idea that you can't fix a translation if you don't have the original manuscripts with which to compare.

She responded that "she had been a church member since 1974, and had never heard about Joseph Smith and his 'stone in the hat', and that if I was going to read something, I needed to stay away from anti-mormon literature."

This has actually caused a lot of grief. I am just hoping that maybe, just maybe her eyes and ears are opened just a little bit.

It just seems a little too fanatical to me to answer every question about faith (which I'm sure we all have) with such a diatribe, and automatically assume that I must have been reading 'anti-mormon literature'. I guess that includes this board. :-)

I guess I did kind of get off topic, huh?

[_asbestosman]

She responded that "she had been a church member since 1974, and had never heard about Joseph Smith and his 'stone in the hat', and that if I was going to read something, I needed to stay away from anti-mormon literature."

This has actually caused a lot of grief. I am just hoping that maybe, just maybe her eyes and ears are opened just a little bit.

It just seems a little too fanatical to me to answer every question about faith (which I'm sure we all have) with such a diatribe, and automatically assume that I must have been reading 'anti-mormon literature'. I guess that includes this board. :-)

I guess it includes the church magazine, The Ensign as well:
Russell M. Nelson, “A Treasured Testament,” Ensign, Jul 1993, 61

Sometimes even I am disturbed by the ignorance of members.

I guess I did kind of get off topic, huh?

Maybe not. I think that some members are a bit overly-eager to blame discomforting things on Satan instead of investigating them.

[_ozemc]

She responded that "she had been a church member since 1974, and had never heard about Joseph Smith and his 'stone in the hat', and that if I was going to read something, I needed to stay away from anti-mormon literature."

This has actually caused a lot of grief. I am just hoping that maybe, just maybe her eyes and ears are opened just a little bit.

It just seems a little too fanatical to me to answer every question about faith (which I'm sure we all have) with such a diatribe, and automatically assume that I must have been reading 'anti-mormon literature'. I guess that includes this board. :-)

I guess it includes the church magazine, The Ensign as well:
Russell M. Nelson, “A Treasured Testament,” Ensign, Jul 1993, 61

Sometimes even I am disturbed by the ignorance of members.

I guess I did kind of get off topic, huh?

Maybe not. I think that some members are a bit overly-eager to blame discomforting things on Satan instead of investigating them.

Thanks for the link, asbestosman. Should make her at least think about it, no?

I am surprised that she doesn't know this. We get the Ensign. And, as she said, she's been a member since 1974, so I would think she's at least heard about it.

Maybe, as in lots of things in our lives, we hear what we want to hear.

With my kids, I called it 'selective hearing'. They didn't hear me tell them to clean up their rooms, but they heard when supper was ready.

[_Gazelam]

Family Trump's church in my opinion, and anyone piddling on the sacred bonds of marriage, temple or not, is piddling on God, and that's to you Gazelam et al.

Since when have I stated in this thread a need for who knows wife to divorce him? where did I say that?

The church builds up and strengthens families. Who Knows is the one who wants to toss his covenants out the window. Is that helping him not get divorced?

[_rain-mom]

After reading threads like this I am so glad I was raised by jack-mormons. The very thought of allowing some bishop or anyone else who feels it's his/her business to interfere in a marriage is just repulsive! And in the name of "Heavenly Father" makes it all the more disgusting.

Gaz, ANY person who tells one-half of a couple that the other is "listening to the wrong spirit" , "has a dark countenance" or any other denegrating statement is not just piddling, but crapping, on someone else's marriage bond. It is inappropriate.

My dear husband heard what a horrible father/husband he was to his first wife for years. He was active TBM, supported a non-working wife & 6 kids, coached his kids' teams, helped neighbors, but he "asked questions" (GASP!!) Believe me, he was absolutely the kindest, most involved, caring & devoted husband & father during our marriage until his death 2 years ago. He was active TBM but his behavior & thinking weren't limited to the rote recitations spouted by GAZ. He was actually sincere. And yes, once his kids, thankfully, got some distance from the church and gained a more realistic view of the world they were actually able to see this very clearly.

After I asked that my name be removed from church rolls our bishop advised him to find someone whom he could take to the temple someday. He stated he would put me before the church & was told that would be a bad choice.

My best friend's husband's new bishop (ward split) learned she was not a Mormon. He put her husband's name on the monthly SINGLES WARD newsletter mailing list, addressed to him only. They had been happily married 19 years & had 3 kids. Luckily, her husband just laughed & ignored the whole pathetic incident.

Oh yes, the church is just all about strengthening & elevating families isn't it? I've seen Mormonism tear more families apart than I even care to remember.

Gaz, it's really past time for you to realize that the all important "covenants" you made were not to God. They were to the COJCOLDS.

[_Mary]

Family Trump's church in my opinion, and anyone piddling on the sacred bonds of marriage, temple or not, is piddling on God, and that's to you Gazelam et al.

Since when have I stated in this thread a need for who knows wife to divorce him? where did I say that?

The church builds up and strengthens families. Who Knows is the one who wants to toss his covenants out the window. Is that helping him not get divorced?

Gaz, thanks for taking the time to reply to my comment.

Okay, in my opinion the 'church' should build up and strengthen families, whether they are whole or part members, including active, inactive and 'apostates'.

That's what I believe the theology should be, though I do agree that there is scriptoral precedent for a 'mother' leaving the father, and 'child' leaving the parent...etc... There's also precedent for viewing marriage bonds as sacred...what God hath joined together, let not man put assunder' type of thinking...

Okay, that's the church as a whole, but in reality the church is made up of very many imperfect local leaders, some of whom do a sterling job and some who do not. That's the reality.

Who Knows is still married to his wife, legally married, or are you like my friend who believes 'ahem' that the only 'proper' marriage is one that is made inside of temple walls.

I'm married outside of temple walls, and I take my covenant to support, honour and stay with my husband through sickness and health, quite seriously. What part of 'that' covenant has Who Knows broken??

Crikey, it's just hit me... There's one of my ex-boyfriends, who was married in the temple to his lovely wife, and he has an affair on her, ..there's breaking the covenant in the first degree. Yet the longsuffering wife was advised to stick with him (which she did for another 2 years I think of his continued infidelity), simply because he still 'believed' the church was true.

Yep,...that's it....... adultery is better in God's eyes than disbelief... What a wierd sense of ethics the 'church' seems to espouse at times...

Grief...

Mary

[_Yoda]

Who Knows is still married to his wife, legally married, or are you like my friend who believes 'ahem' that the only 'proper' marriage is one that is made inside of temple walls.

I'm married outside of temple walls, and I take my covenant to support, honour and stay with my husband through sickness and health, quite seriously. What part of 'that' covenant has Who Knows broken??

I agree with you, Mary, and would like to take this one step further.

This is something else to chew on, Gaz. Who Knows is STILL sealed to his wife in the temple.

There has been no dissolution of sealing which has occurred.

Therefore, from an LDS perspective, the Bishop is really skating on thin ice. He's meddling in an active temple marriage.

So what if Who Knows is having some problems faith-wise? Is he still being faithful to his wife? Yes. Does he still love and support her? Yes. Is he loving to his kids? Yes. HE IS EVEN STILL ATTENDING CHURCH MEETINGS TO SUPPORT HIS WIFE WITH THE KIDS!

It sounds to me like there is a huge window of opportunity that the bishop is ignoring in this case.

Also, the only "covenant" that WK is currently braking has to do with devoting his time and talents to the Church. This, I believe, is a little bit different in God's eyes than being unfaithful to his wife, abusing his children, etc.

For a bishop to tell a wife or children that their father has a "bad spirit" about them, simply because he is having a trial of faith is completely out of line.

[_Runtu]

It sounds to me like there is a huge window of opportunity that the bishop is ignoring in this case.

Also, the only "covenant" that WK is currently braking has to do with devoting his time and talents to the Church. This, I believe, is a little bit different in God's eyes than being unfaithful to his wife, abusing his children, etc.

For a bishop to tell a wife or children that their father has a "bad spirit" about them, simply because he is having a trial of faith is completely out of line.

I completely agree with you. The bishop should be looking for ways to increase harmony in marriages, not sow division. I believe that it's through seeking common ground that we can resolve even the thorny issues of belief and unbelief. That isn't going to happen when the bishop is driving a wedge between two people.