grindael wrote:Who do you mean by "the Church" here? I think I know, but don't want to put words in your mouth.
The administration of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
grindael wrote:I would agree Mak, if only if this were true: "Church records offer no clear insights into the origins of this practice."
Church records absolutely do offer clear insights into the origins of the priesthood ban against blacks. Brigham Young claimed that it was instigated by divine guidance or motivation.
You have the minutes from the meeting or the text of the revelation in which it was directed, or you have texts from well after where Brigham Young suggested it was divinely inspired? There's an enormous difference there that I hope you're not just naïvely glossing over.
grindael wrote:(revelation) If only they were honest here, Mak, your statement would have some teeth. I'm open to the possibility of your premise here, if you used a different example. I think they make every effort to acknowledge that they are human and make mistakes, but not with things of this nature. (Doctrine, revelation, teachings, etc.) They had to recraft the priesthood narrative to make it work the way you are stating above. It is not one prophet having a revelation that overturns the true teachings of a former prophet, rather it is one prophet overturning a policy that they claim they don't know the origins of.
Yes, they recrafted it based on a more accurate historical reconstruction of the events. I fail to see why that's a problem.
grindael wrote:Take for example what Dallin Oaks said recently, which I think perfectly encapsulates their thinking today: (Take note especially after the "but")...
I also testify to you that the teachings the savior has given us in his own words recorded in the New Testament and in modern revelation through his authorized spokesman are true and they set out for us the way to avoid being deceived by seducing spirits, to use the scriptural term, or by those who have themselves been deceived by seducing spirits. Stand fast with the leadership of the church. I heard President Hinckley in describing a revelation he had received concerning the building of small temples form which he will soon benefit in this part of the world that he did not claim perfection that there was only one perfect person who had ever lived upon this earth and even the prophets of God were not perfect. But, as the Prophet Joseph Smith said, on a great occasion, ‘there is no error in the teachings.’ Spoken under the influence of the spirit of the Lord, witnessed to be true in the hearts and minds of those who have the gift of the Holy Ghost, those teachings are the Lord’s will to his people. And I testify to you that these teachings are true and that if we hold with and follow the current leadership of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints, we will stay on the path toward eternal life. (Boise Rescue Transcript)
And what bearing does this have on my comment? Didn't I already point out that the Church likes to promote a kind of de facto inerrancy and infallibility?
