You guys are still at it! (why am I not surprised?)

[MG 2.0]

Mental claims he is under a covenant to be here in order to share and express his belief/testimony of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Let's take a brief look to see if Mental is being honest about his motivation for being here.

President Nelson couldn't have been more clear about how Mormons are to interact online:

"My dear brothers and sisters, how we treat each other really matters! How we speak to and about others at home, at church, at work, and online really matters. Today, I am asking us to interact with others in a higher, holier way. Please listen carefully. “If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy” that we can say about another person—whether to his face or behind her back—that should be our standard of communication. Today I invite you to examine your discipleship within the context of the way you treat others. I bless you to make any adjustments that may be needed so that your behavior is ennobling, respectful, and representative of a true follower of Jesus Christ. I bless you to replace belligerence with beseeching, animosity with understanding, and contention with peace."


Take a quick look at a few of Mental's comments on this board. While reading these comments, ask yourself if Mental is truly here to express his belief/testimony of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, or if he is here for some other reason. The answer should be quite obvious:

By the way, loser, we are already well aware that you don't believe in the Divine calling of Joseph Smith...so what's your point in preaching to the choir? You already know you're gonna just get high fives. So what's your point? Much ado about nothing, isn't it? You're a loser, grindael. Ya, I know I just called you a loser. But the shoe fits.

No s*** Sherlock. My word! It was making me dizzy.

What kind of person ARE you? You come across as a rather mean grumpy old man.

Give us a time stamp that actually makes your point or shut up. Rivendale? Are you there? IHQ is not helping you.You are getting tiresome, IHQ. Honestly. Sheesh.

Coming from someone that doesn’t believe we have a Heavenly Father, that’s rich.

For being a smart guy, the playing dumb routine ain’t working brother. I’m referring to your defensiveness. You appear to be stumbling over your words. You may want to try harder and read for comprehension. One too many? Come back when you’re sobered up?

For a smart guy, you say some dumb things, Gadianton. And for the record, I’m not calling you dumb. Im just saying that now and then you say some dumb things. Like what you just said

Have you no shame? 80-90% of your responses to me are large volume cut and pastes. For being such a smart person (you do work in the academy from what I seem to remember) you sure do some dumb things. Folks, take a look at what this lady can do. Isn’t she amazing? Not only the board nanny but also the cut and paste queen. What skill! What acumen!

Don’t act dumb.

I don’t think you’re married. Oh, by the way, I’m not being chauvinistic.

You haven’t been able to get this far by not having a bit of the poseur in you, I’m sure.

You keep doing that. I’m assuming it has some meaning? Better than your stupid GIF’s and dumb videos though. Maybe that’s an improvement.

Calling you an apostate doesn’t mean I hate you. Good day. Now I’m off.

How in the world would you, of all people, be able to know what active, believing members of the church get out of the talks? You are a critic and apostate.

You are a liar. I have made it clear that I watched the conversation between Jacob and Jeff.

I think I am now done with you. I have no respect, whatsoever, for you. Carry on with your childish and immature responses

I don't have any reservations about what I've said and when I've said it contextually.

As I've said, it's all in the eye of the beholder. I've had some pretty rough stuff thrown my way. I don't expect anything different. At times I fight fire with fire and yet at the same time believe I'm staying within the bounds of civil dialogue. Some people, granted, do seem to have more sensitivity than others.

I wouldn't have any qualms over an ecclesiastical authority make a judgment call I regards to whether or not I'm handling myself appropriately in an environment such as this.

After all, it is a toxic environment. Not a friendly place at all towards the church, its teachings, or those members that have been around the block and see through the fog of incomplete and/or misinformation. Critics don't like that.

An echo chamber is ideal, right?

Regards,
MG

[Shulem]

An echo chamber is ideal, right?

You Goddamn coward. You aren't fooling me. Your weak and ineffectual ability to present your case is outdated and expired.

Beat it, I'll ram the Egyptian king's name and everything else up your sorry hole.

Beat it!

[I Have Questions]

Step outside and breathe. Hug a child. Serve a neighbor. Take a drive. Read a good book. Have a real life conversation.

Why have you started with the conclusion that people who post here don't do those things? Why have you concluded that you must lead a better life? That's the hallmark of someone who is dissatisfied with their own life but who is trying to make themselves feel better about it. What's amiss in your life? Perhaps we can help?

I would note that suggesting people "Hug a child" sounds a little creepy. If you go around hugging random children then you are a creepy guy and parents should keep their kids well away from you. Your comment is troubling.

In terms your avoidance of putting your money where your mouth is and serving a senior mission, Elder Robert Gay has some wise words for you in his 2020 talk...

“You know, you really don’t get it. The Lord is calling you to save your life. You are either going to live your life by covenant or by convenience. There is never a convenient time to serve. This is a matter of faith. You either believe the Lord will bless your life with the blessings you need as you do His priorities or you don’t.”

Will you forsake your God and not serve? Will you continue to lack the faith that you claim to have?

[Hound of Heaven]

MG,

I’m curious if you think that other counter-cult groups should also cease discussion.

Honestly, I'm not familiar with these groups. I can only speak from my experience on this board.

Is there no value in preventing, say, a Scientologist from devoting their life to Scientology, assuming that Scientology is a dangerous and false cult?

My answer to this question would be yes. Scientology has a number of indicators of being a quasi-religious group that operates within locked and isolated communities and teaches 'doctrines' opposed to Christianity. From my perspective as a believer in Christ I believe that any group that purposefully leads people away from belief in Jesus Christ and/or a warped version (Course in Miracles for example) is 'anti-Christ' in a certain sense.

If Mormonism is similarly false, is there no value in guiding people away from another cult? And providing a bit of community to people who have learned the truth and lost theirs?

Mormonism, so called, is a church that makes the truth claim to be the restored Church of Jesus Christ and the repository of eternal truth from the same God that winds himself in and out of history through the Judeo-Christian tradition. I see that as something qualitatively different from Hubbard's goofy ideas perpetuated from his novels.

But I see your point. If someone truly believes the CofJCofLDS to be a cult on par with Scientology they ought to speak out against it. Of course I believe that you're barking up the wrong tree to compare Scientology to the fruits, works and saving doctrines of the LDS Church.

I suppose what I find interesting is that this board has the same cast of characters that wash, rinse, and repeat the same bashing against the church and its members over and over again. Rehash upon rehash.

I guess I'm just thinking that would get rather old among the folks that have been doing the bashing for years upon end. IHAQ comes to mind. I mean, what's up with that guy? What keeps him going in respect to keeping up with all things LDS (lates news, etc.) so that he can then show up and bash the church. I'd almost bet that he has some hidden agenda that keeps him up at night (literally?) trying to come up with the 'next big thing'. Over the years there are those here that have provided the next 'smoking gun' that will ultimately result in the demise of the LDS Church. Time after time after time resulting in a big fat zero.

But they don't give up. Somehow, they think they're going to come off the winner or change the game. That's simply wishful thinking. Disciples of Jesus Christ are, generally speaking, not going to be pushed off the path that leads to the Tree of Life.

Is that the motivation of the critics? Push hard enough and they can push a critical mass off the path and kill the Tree of Life?

That's not gonna happen folks. But there are those that will keep trying. And there will be casualties along the way.

This boards 'unwritten order of things' is to do just that. Lead folks away from the Tree of Life into the Great and Spacious Building. Nothing of value to add, only criticism of that they do not believe. It's almost as though it's a life's goal and all consuming passion. Think of RFM, Bill Reel, John Dehlin, Mormonish, and some of the newcomers. It's an obsession.

But again, if you are right, and these folks honestly see...as you do...the LDS Church as a cult, then I suppose that may be what motivates them day after day after day to do what they do.

If not the money.

But no one here is making money off of all their postings and church/member bashing. So I wonder WHY??

Regards,
MG

Hello MG. From the beginning, I acknowledge that there is nothing I can express that will convince you to entertain the idea that the claims of the Mormon church are untrue. However, I kindly request that you try to comprehend the uniqueness of the Mormon Church, as its official name explicitly states that we are living in the latter days of human existence as it has been known for thousands of years.

The LDS religion appears to be like an hourglass, gradually losing sand and ultimately facing a deadline to demonstrate that it is the sole true and living religious organization on earth. Even though I am already aware of your likely response, I would like to pose this question, how many generations must pass before the LDS assertion that we are living in the latter days is no longer accepted by its members? Are we now 8 to 9 generations since the restoration of the LDS church in 1830? Do you think that every LDS generation since 1830 has held the belief that theirs would be the generation to bring about the second coming of Christ?

My LDS grandfather, MG, was born in 1896, and he held the belief throughout his life that his generation would witness the return of Christ to earth. My mother and father, until the day they passed away, held the conviction that they belonged to the generation destined to herald the return of Christ to earth. Individuals from my generation hold the belief that they are the ones destined to bring about the return of Christ to earth, and the children born into the LDS faith within my generation share the conviction that they are the generation tasked with ushering in this significant event. How many years or generations beyond the 2nd millennium will it be acceptable for LDS youth to question the validity of Joseph Smith's claims regarding the LDS church as the organization intended to establish numerous temples on earth for Christ to rule from during the second coming?

Have you ever thought about how the church, by accumulating significant wealth and assets, is positioning itself to become the leading church of the future? They seem to be indicating that they expect to endure for centuries beyond the millennium. In doing so, they demonstrate that the claims made by the church are entirely unfounded. If the church's assertions were true, they would not treat it as a business. Instead, they would act on faith, allocating tithing funds swiftly to assist the needy and less fortunate. By doing so, they would embody a life of faith, trusting that Heavenly Father will provide for the church in the coming year, enabling them to sustain their humanitarian efforts.

[Moksha]

You’re one of the nastiest and meanest posters. You’re rude to others. Your opening post is mean to others. It’s the opposite of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. So you’re deluded or lying. Everytime you post (and you post a lot!) the curtain is pulled back just a little bit more.

My opening post was not mean.

I understand that being in your position requires that you will see things differently.

Regards,
MG

Some people might have started with, "Hi guys, it is nice to be back. What's new?"

[MG 2.0]

Honestly, I'm not familiar with these groups. I can only speak from my experience on this board.



My answer to this question would be yes. Scientology has a number of indicators of being a quasi-religious group that operates within locked and isolated communities and teaches 'doctrines' opposed to Christianity. From my perspective as a believer in Christ I believe that any group that purposefully leads people away from belief in Jesus Christ and/or a warped version (Course in Miracles for example) is 'anti-Christ' in a certain sense.



Mormonism, so called, is a church that makes the truth claim to be the restored Church of Jesus Christ and the repository of eternal truth from the same God that winds himself in and out of history through the Judeo-Christian tradition. I see that as something qualitatively different from Hubbard's goofy ideas perpetuated from his novels.

But I see your point. If someone truly believes the CofJCofLDS to be a cult on par with Scientology they ought to speak out against it. Of course I believe that you're barking up the wrong tree to compare Scientology to the fruits, works and saving doctrines of the LDS Church.

I suppose what I find interesting is that this board has the same cast of characters that wash, rinse, and repeat the same bashing against the church and its members over and over again. Rehash upon rehash.

I guess I'm just thinking that would get rather old among the folks that have been doing the bashing for years upon end. IHAQ comes to mind. I mean, what's up with that guy? What keeps him going in respect to keeping up with all things LDS (lates news, etc.) so that he can then show up and bash the church. I'd almost bet that he has some hidden agenda that keeps him up at night (literally?) trying to come up with the 'next big thing'. Over the years there are those here that have provided the next 'smoking gun' that will ultimately result in the demise of the LDS Church. Time after time after time resulting in a big fat zero.

But they don't give up. Somehow, they think they're going to come off the winner or change the game. That's simply wishful thinking. Disciples of Jesus Christ are, generally speaking, not going to be pushed off the path that leads to the Tree of Life.

Is that the motivation of the critics? Push hard enough and they can push a critical mass off the path and kill the Tree of Life?

That's not gonna happen folks. But there are those that will keep trying. And there will be casualties along the way.

This boards 'unwritten order of things' is to do just that. Lead folks away from the Tree of Life into the Great and Spacious Building. Nothing of value to add, only criticism of that they do not believe. It's almost as though it's a life's goal and all consuming passion. Think of RFM, Bill Reel, John Dehlin, Mormonish, and some of the newcomers. It's an obsession.

But again, if you are right, and these folks honestly see...as you do...the LDS Church as a cult, then I suppose that may be what motivates them day after day after day to do what they do.

If not the money.

But no one here is making money off of all their postings and church/member bashing. So I wonder WHY??

Regards,
MG

Hello MG. From the beginning, I acknowledge that there is nothing I can express that will convince you to entertain the idea that the claims of the Mormon church are untrue. However, I kindly request that you try to comprehend the uniqueness of the Mormon Church, as its official name explicitly states that we are living in the latter days of human existence as it has been known for thousands of years.

The LDS religion appears to be like an hourglass, gradually losing sand and ultimately facing a deadline to demonstrate that it is the sole true and living religious organization on earth. Even though I am already aware of your likely response, I would like to pose this question, how many generations must pass before the LDS assertion that we are living in the latter days is no longer accepted by its members? Are we now 8 to 9 generations since the restoration of the LDS church in 1830? Do you think that every LDS generation since 1830 has held the belief that theirs would be the generation to bring about the second coming of Christ?

My LDS grandfather, MG, was born in 1896, and he held the belief throughout his life that his generation would witness the return of Christ to earth. My mother and father, until the day they passed away, held the conviction that they belonged to the generation destined to herald the return of Christ to earth. Individuals from my generation hold the belief that they are the ones destined to bring about the return of Christ to earth, and the children born into the LDS faith within my generation share the conviction that they are the generation tasked with ushering in this significant event. How many years or generations beyond the 2nd millennium will it be acceptable for LDS youth to question the validity of Joseph Smith's claims regarding the LDS church as the organization intended to establish numerous temples on earth for Christ to rule from during the second coming?

Have you ever thought about how the church, by accumulating significant wealth and assets, is positioning itself to become the leading church of the future? They seem to be indicating that they expect to endure for centuries beyond the millennium. In doing so, they demonstrate that the claims made by the church are entirely unfounded. If the church's assertions were true, they would not treat it as a business. Instead, they would act on faith, allocating tithing funds swiftly to assist the needy and less fortunate. By doing so, they would embody a life of faith, trusting that Heavenly Father will provide for the church in the coming year, enabling them to sustain their humanitarian efforts.

No man knows when that time is that the Savior will return. What we have been told is that there will be many saying, "So what's up? He was supposed to be here by now." Early Christian Saints had their timetable, Joseph Smith had his. So I hear you. One could become a bit weary and disallusioned in their expectations.

I remember going to seminary back in 68-72 and being told the Second Coming was likely to happen around the turn of the millennium. Not that many years ago BKP gave a conference talk and made it seem like that time would be at least a few generations into the future.

No one knows.

In the meantime we live our lives with a hope and faith in a kingdom yet to come whether here in earth or in heaven. Granted, some are impatient and go their own way.

There are many reasons that one might leave the covenant path. There are many reasons one might stay.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

My opening post was not mean.

I understand that being in your position requires that you will see things differently.

Regards,
MG

Some people might have started with, "Hi guys, it is nice to be back. What's new?"

But I already had a good idea of what the answer would be.

"Nothing much!"

Plus...are you serious? Nice to be back? This place is a place I come to periodically to do what I've outlined and alluded to many times. Just as a young missionary might go out into the hot tropical weather and spend a day with rejection and do it again the next day...or as it was in my mission, cold and frigid days, I show up to a place that is very cold towards the CofJCofLDS. It's really not a pleasant place to be unless you are a critic or unbeliever.

Brrrr!!! It's cold in these parts!

I suppose that's why I didn't jump back in and say what you might have wanted me to say.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

I would note that suggesting people "Hug a child" sounds a little creepy. If you go around hugging random children then you are a creepy guy and parents should keep their kids well away from you. Your comment is troubling.

Sorry if this appeared "creepy" to you. I live in a different 'mindspace' than you do I suppose. I wasn't at all thinking anything untoward. If anything I was thinking of Jesus when he asked the disciples to let the children come unto him. There are so many children that need tender and loving care and attention.

Even a hug sometimes.

We should not shy away from that even though we live in a world where, yes, there are evil doers.

Truth be told, however, back in the years when I first taught school in the early eighties a teacher could still give a child a hug. As the years went on, not so much.

Sad.

And then we have people such as yourself that have an automatic revulsion towards showing physical love towards another.

That's also sad.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

An echo chamber is ideal, right?

You...coward.

I'm sure you won't mind if I cut out the language. Truth is, there are things that I don't know and don't have the answers to. Little bit hard to post about something and have something worth while to say if I don't have an answer that I am comfortable with sharing here.

Or at the very least a response that would be acceptable to you.

Meaning: You've taken God out of the picture and replaced it with naturalism and determinism. I think things are rather more complex and nuanced.

But we can go the rounds on that all day long. That doesn't interest me a whole lot. Over the years and on other threads, I've attempted to do that.

You're where you at. Nothing will change that. You enjoy the natural man lifestyle.

From what I've heard you say it sounds as though Jesus is an anathema to you.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

I still haven't received a PM from the ex-Bishop Wang.

Puzzling? Maybe not so much...

Regards,
MG