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Quite a few years ago I was talking to my dad's cousin who apparently was somewhat close to Truman G. Madsen, quasi-famous Mormon author and lecturer. He described a conversation he had with Brother Madsen about the missionary program. Madsen reportedly stated, "The church must be true! How else can the Lord send out 50,000 naïve 19 year-olds and expect the church to grow if it wasn't actually true?"

I was a hardcore TBM at the time, so I didn't think to question the logic. Now that I'm older and (hopefully) wiser, I wish I could've been in on that conversation. Had I known then what I know now, I would've replied with, "What mid-level Fortune 500 company wouldn't jump at the chance to have 50,000 complete suckers willing to work for free while following completely inane rules? So what if one of them slept in, watched a movie, or held hands with a girl once or twice--what Fortune 500 company wouldn't consider that an acceptable 'sacrifice' to have a free sales force like that?"

If the conversation really took place as reported, it appears Brother Madsen may be beset by his share of doubts, too. I wonder how he would react if someone could show him that alternate perspective.

Does anyone else have an example of flimsy logic used by someone to hold on to their faith?

That Madsen comment was somewhat in the nature of a joke, I'd guess. But you're welcome to assume he meant it in all seriousness, if you prefer.

Like in the Peanuts comic strip Lucy is asked by her brother Linus why the sky is blue. She responds hotly: "Because it isn't green!" Linus is startled by this and comments that he had always thought there'd be a more complicated reason.

That's also a joke.

Dr. Shades wrote:
Does anyone else have an example of flimsy logic used by someone to hold on to their faith?

My favorite has always been, "The Church must be true. Look at how persecuted we are."

Nort

Nortinski wrote:My favorite has always been, "The Church must be true. Look at how persecuted we are."

In that case, Judaism is the true religion. . . or perhaps the Branch Davidians.

Dr. Shades wrote:

Nortinski wrote:My favorite has always been, "The Church must be true. Look at how persecuted we are."

In that case, Judaism is the true religion. . . or perhaps the Branch Davidians.

Certainly Adolf Hitler's message was "true". He had the whole world against him. The poor little fella.

Nort

As a return missionary I can tell you that the Holy Ghost is extremely powerful in the mission field. The bufeting of the spirit I felt in the MTC were incredible. When I left on my mission I can't really claim to of had any real knowledge of the gospel, I went because I knew it was the right thing to do, and having grown up in my home ward I knew the quality of the young men who left, and what they were like by the time they got home, andf I wanted that for myself. I wanted that change, whatever it was.

The MTC was very intence spiritualy. I didn't know what the Holy Ghost was then, but looking back I can see it. Believe me when I tell you that alot of those that were there really were 19 year old boys and spending a good portion of my mission around some from beginning to end, there was a mighty change that takes place. I was lucky enough to serve in a proper mission, led by a worthy mission president and those who sought to uphold their covenants, my brother was not so lucky and has not yet recovered.

The Holy Ghost is key. It is best to go out with an understanding of how he works, but as long as at some point you recognize him and apply him, you see miracles occur.

Gazelam wrote:I was lucky enough to serve in a proper mission, led by a worthy mission president and those who sought to uphold their covenants, my brother was not so lucky and has not yet recovered.

A "proper mission"? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...yer killin' me. Let me guess, none of the Elders in your mission ever masturbated either, right?

Jeesh Shades, where are you getting these people? Please remove the ads from the Ensign. It's bringing out the crazies.

Nort

Wow, I like your Avatar, damned in your progression then and now.

You trying to confess a sin to us with that post?

This is the wrong place, go find your Bishop.

Nortinski wrote:Jeesh Shades, where are you getting these people? Please remove the ads from the Ensign. It's bringing out the crazies.

Now, now. :-) I'm sure you were speaking in jest, but for Gazelam and everyone else: This board is 100% LDS-neutral. All points of view are fully welcome, whether from believers, disbelievers, undecideds, etc.

The Dr. posted:

>>I was a hardcore TBM at the time, so I didn't think to question the logic. Now that I'm older and (hopefully) wiser, I wish I could've been in on that conversation. Had I known then what I know now, I would've replied with, "What mid-level Fortune 500 company wouldn't jump at the chance to have 50,000 complete suckers willing to work for free while following completely inane rules? So what if one of them slept in, watched a movie, or held hands with a girl once or twice--what Fortune 500 company wouldn't consider that an acceptable 'sacrifice' to have a free sales force like that?">>

If you think 19 and early 20 year olds with 12 weeks of training would be accepted as salesmen/salespersons by Fortune 500 companies, well, I have a bridge in NYC I would like to sell to you.

The Beachbum