Question for Plutarch

[_Yoda]

Since you mentioned in several prior threads that you felt that people who attacked the Church using a psuedonymn were hypocritical, I wanted to get your view on the following:

You're an attorney. Have you ever run into a case dealing with identity theft or stalking where the Internet is involved? Even if you don't deal in that particular facet of law, are you aware of any of your colleagues who do practice this type of law dealing with these issues?

Do you truly believe that protecting ones' self from identity theft and stalking are not legitimate concerns?

[_rcrocket]

You are just mushing together two different concepts to help advance your argument.

"Identity theft" under the law is the use of one's name to obtain one's assets. Let's say your real name is Liz Jones. If you started posting as Liz Jones, this would be no different than signing up as Liz Jones to help at your kid's school; signing up as Liz Jones to work in a Boys and Girls Club, or signing up as an employee who serves the public. The public will learn your name in all sorts of contexts.

If you are truly concerned with "identity theft," that does not justify cowardly hypocritical posts (I am not necessarily tagging you with this problem) attacking living persons and the Church while claiming to be a member of the Church. Better off posting nothing than being a coward and a hypocrite.

Let's say you worked for Zions' Bank in Utah and you had a boss. He is married, a Church leader and you learn he is having an office affair. You don't like him. If you get rid of him, you might get his job. You get on local blogs or web sites or a blog dedicated to criticizing Zion's Bank (there are plenty like that against many different businesses) anonymously and post hit pieces against him and his affair. You reason that using your real name will protect you from identify theft even though what you are saying is true (and thus not defamation). You are a coward and a hypocrite because if you know that you use your real name you would likely be fired.

Those who post here anonymously who also claim to be members of the Church in good standing (I am not so worked up about those who don't) fear retribution from their bishops or stake presidents in the form of action on their membership. If they use their real names, they know that some day somebody (not me, but somebody) might report them to their priesthood leader. This is not different than the example I have provided above. These are cowards and hypocrites.

Thanks for the question, but your fellow posters will cringe as you are just humoring me.


P

[_Who Knows]

edit - i guess i'm not a member 'in good standing' so this is N/A for me.

[_rcrocket]

edit - i guess i'm not a member 'in good standing' so this is N/A for me.

Yes. I would condemn the Zion's Bank employee posting anonymously about bank personnel issues, anonymously and publicly. If the employee wants to expose defects in the organization, then work through company protocols or resign her employment. An ex-employee who posted anonymous attacks (like, on an anti-Wal-Mart board) may have an important social function to perform.

The Mister Scratches, Harmonys and Rollos of the world are in a very very bad position with the man upstairs, I would estimate. But I am not their judge; I am an observer.

P

[_Yoda]

OK....you addressed my question regarding identity theft. Fair enough. What about the legitimate fear regarding stalking? It happens.

The main reason I personally use an alias is that ten years ago, when I began participating in Internet forums, I was very naiive. I always used my real name.

A rather sick poster tracked my IP address and published where I lived, where I worked, etc. He also began calling my home. The police had to become involved. It was a very scary situation.

Since then, my rule of thumb is to always post using an alias. Also, most of the posters on MAD/FAIR use aliases for similar reasons.

Actually, I suppose I should thank this stalker in a way, because it was what led me to wanting to study more about IT and how I eventually ended up getting my Master's degree in Computer Science. LOL

I guess my point is that it seems that you are assuming that Rollo, Harmony, Scratch, and others are using aliases to avoid repurcussions from the Church. Have they specifically stated that? I don't recall reading anything from these people that stated that.

I just think that you need to take people's reasonings for doing things at face value unless you are proven otherwise, rather than attacking their integrity by calling them hypocrites.

Also...calling someone who disagrees with aspects of the Church a hypocrite for posting with an alias, when there are many Church proponents who post with aliases just doesn't stand up as a reasonable arguement.

[_rcrocket]

OK....you addressed my question regarding identity theft. Fair enough. What about the legitimate fear regarding stalking? It happens.

The main reason I personally use an alias is that ten years ago, when I began participating in Internet forums, I was very naiive. I always used my real name.

A rather sick poster tracked my IP address and published where I lived, where I worked, etc. He also began calling my home. The police had to become involved. It was a very scary situation.

Since then, my rule of thumb is to always post using an alias. Also, most of the posters on MAD/FAIR use aliases for similar reasons.

Actually, I suppose I should thank this stalker in a way, because it was what led me to wanting to study more about IT and how I eventually ended up getting my Master's degree in Computer Science. LOL

I guess my point is that it seems that you are assuming that Rollo, Harmony, Scratch, and others are using aliases to avoid repurcussions from the Church. Have they specifically stated that? I don't recall reading anything from these people that stated that.

I just think that you need to take people's reasonings for doing things at face value unless you are proven otherwise, rather than attacking their integrity by calling them hypocrites.

Also...calling someone who disagrees with aspects of the Church a hypocrite for posting with an alias, when there are many Church proponents who post with aliases just doesn't stand up as a reasonable arguement.

Really, I am just repeating myself. One cannot justify anonymous attacks on the Church simply by the convienient excuse that somebody will stalk you after you disclose your name. Better off not being a coward.

I am not here to defend Church proponents who post anonymously. They are as cowardly as you. I think I have said that several times already.

P

[_Yoda]

In a perfect world where people aren't stalked, I would agree with you as far as both sides posting by true names. But the world is not that way. And, unless you have experienced being stalked, I don't think you can understand how scary it is...not only to yourself, but your family.

Frankly, my personality is the same on the Internet as it is in real life. I don't pull any punches. You either like me or you don't.

But I don't think I'm a hypocrite for posting on a message board with an alias. I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree.

Also.....are anonymous attacks on the Church what is really going on here? There are some here who are vehement against the Church, but most of the posters such as Harmony, Rollo, Scratch, Runtu, GIMR, and myself generate discussion involving the Church. Some of it is negative, but some of it is positive, too.

I guess I just don't see how disagreeing with different aspects of the Church falls in the same category of "attack".

And, again, if you REALLY feel that way....that the majority of posters here are actively attacking the Church.....why do you bother spending time here? You say it's for "entertainment purposes". Isn't that a little perverse? That you are entertained by people attacking something you hold dear?

[_Mister Scratch]

OK....you addressed my question regarding identity theft. Fair enough. What about the legitimate fear regarding stalking? It happens.

The main reason I personally use an alias is that ten years ago, when I began participating in Internet forums, I was very naiive. I always used my real name.

A rather sick poster tracked my IP address and published where I lived, where I worked, etc. He also began calling my home. The police had to become involved. It was a very scary situation.

Since then, my rule of thumb is to always post using an alias. Also, most of the posters on MAD/FAIR use aliases for similar reasons.

Actually, I suppose I should thank this stalker in a way, because it was what led me to wanting to study more about IT and how I eventually ended up getting my Master's degree in Computer Science. LOL

I guess my point is that it seems that you are assuming that Rollo, Harmony, Scratch, and others are using aliases to avoid repurcussions from the Church. Have they specifically stated that? I don't recall reading anything from these people that stated that.

I just think that you need to take people's reasonings for doing things at face value unless you are proven otherwise, rather than attacking their integrity by calling them hypocrites.

Also...calling someone who disagrees with aspects of the Church a hypocrite for posting with an alias, when there are many Church proponents who post with aliases just doesn't stand up as a reasonable arguement.

Really, I am just repeating myself. One cannot justify anonymous attacks on the Church simply by the convienient excuse that somebody will stalk you after you disclose your name. Better off not being a coward.

That "somebody will stalk you" has its basis in fact: What other purpose is the SCMC supposed to serve?

I am not here to defend Church proponents who post anonymously. They are as cowardly as you. I think I have said that several times already.

P

No. You're here to ferret out dissenters, so they can be disciplined by the Church. Who are you working for, Bob?

[_rcrocket]

Who are you working for, Bob?

I am a partner (thus self-employed) in a commercial law firm.

You say it's for "entertainment purposes". Isn't that a little perverse? That you are entertained by people attacking something you hold dear?

Oh, the perversities which compel men.

P

[_Rollo Tomasi]

The Mister Scratches, Harmonys and Rollos of the world are in a very very bad position with the man upstairs, I would estimate. But I am not their judge; I am an observer.

You may not be our judge, but you are certainly judgmental. And, pray tell, how are we "in a very very bad position with the man upstairs"? Are you so fearful of open and honest discussion and debate that you honestly believe that God, whose "glory is intelligence," will punish us for expressing ideas, opinions, beliefs, concerns, observations, etc.?