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I was recently trying to explain my beliefs to my betrothed, and I found it rather difficult. I ended up drawing graphs, pulling up various scientific websites, having her read several wikipedia articles on hallucinogens, entheogens, quotes from Timothy Leary, the Mayan Calendar, Zen Buddhism, it goes on and on and on and on. When I got to my testimony of Christ, I made a new connection that I wanted to share.

Jesus makes religion obsolete.

This is quite a large statement if taken out of context, so allow me to try putting it into the correct context - that of evolution.

Now, allow me to make a separation. I am not talking about evolution as most people understand it. The current evolutionary theory does not include the origin of life, or anything before that. It also doesn't try to explain anything supernatural such as consciousness, purpose, or afterlife. The evolution I will be speaking of is a much more universal concept -- I consider it the evolution of the one-consciousness, or of God.

Evolution, or creation, has always sped up exponentially. It took roughly 14 billion years for the planets to form. 1 billion years for life to form. 65 million years ago, mammals took over. 4-ish million years ago, primates came forth. 100,000 years ago, humans.

You can see each change came faster and faster. Then came the change that brought religions. about 4000bc, Laws and Nations came about. The laws of abraham and Moses were all the rage. These laws allowed nations to grow, it gave people a reason to protect eachother in much larger numbers than simple tribes. It worked quite well. Until about 40-400 ad. By this point, laws were getting a bit out of control. It was time for a new evolutionary step. Jesus came and "fullfilled the law." The christian movement took over, and for the next several hundred years the new idea that laws were a thing of the past seeped into everyone's mind. The step was completed come the 1700's, when the industrial revolution began.

At this point, Power took the place of Laws. Money has become the new ruling class, laws are archaic and mean nothing. Money and Power have taken over. Until the internet. 1992.

The speed of evolution is growing quite quickly. The advent of the internet has brought the new wave, that of Ethics. People cry out against laws, and they cry out against power. The 9/11 attacks, and the Enron scandal show this quite well. A cry for ethics, for doing what is right, regardless of laws is sweeping the nation. All the pro-drug documentaries, the more and more numerous protests, and the hard-left rule over the media show that the next rally cry is one above laws, and above power.

I'm probably explaining this horribly. http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=lungold There's a video about the mayan calendar, where he explains the events and levels of the evolution of consiousness much better than I am. The main point I'm trying to get across is this:

Jesus Fullfilled the law -- he preached personal power, and acting with your own mind and conscience. Why then, is the law so heavily preached in christian, and especially Mormon doctrines?

And another question: Does following the laws improve the power of your own mind and consciousness? Do they hold you back? Why or why not?

Dude, that's cool.

An answer to your two questions:

Why then, is the law so heavily preached in christian, and especially Mormon doctrines?

Because secretly people feel out of control, and want someone to do the ethical thinking for them. Boundaries make people feel safe.

And another question: Does following the laws improve the power of your own mind and consciousness? Do they hold you back? Why or why not?

I follow basic laws so as to not have a run-in with the cops. Those folks are awful trigger happy these days, just heard another case of someone getting shot. But then again, if you flee, they will chase you, and if you have a criminal record and they run your license and see this, they're not exactly gonna handle you with kid gloves. Still, I wanna live and not have to fear bending over in my shower. Not that I could, it's too small.

Laws really don't improve the power of my own mind and consciousness, no. They just create a structure within which I can safely (well, most of the time) live. Laws don't really hold me back, except when I want to smack a dumb judge (like when an old roomate sued me for leaving her crazy behind) or a guy who is groping me in public (if I beat his a**, I'll get charged with assault, whereas if I go to the police, they'll do nothing to help me).

The basic framework of the laws in the society I live in, I really don't think about. I'm not a serious troublemaker, so I don't really think about what would happen should I transgress a law. I haven't been impressed enough by anything to make me want to do something that would put me in jail. So I just go on every day doing what I can do. These days I ignore 99.9999999999999 percent of the people around me and focus on improving this sad mass of gray matter in my skull. Slow going...

Wow, you were up REALLY late. that's usually how people write that time of the night/morning.

Disregarding the first 4/5ths of your post I would love to talk about the last two sentances.

The Laws of God exist to help us to understand the mind and will of our Father in Heaven. They teach us the culture of heaven. Christ taught that the beginning of following him was to be baptised. Baptism by immersion is followed by the reception of the Gift of the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost directs us in following Christs teachings if we live our lives in harmony with the gospel. Begin with this basic foundation, and your other questions will be answered.

Gaz

keene wrote:Jesus Fullfilled the law -- he preached personal power, and acting with your own mind and conscience. Why then, is the law so heavily preached in christian, and especially Mormon doctrines?

This is a new age version of Christianity. Jesus did not preach personal power, but instead that we are essentially slaves to the grace of God. We have two choices. Follow Him or not.

"Invictus"
by William Ernest Henley

Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the Pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.

In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.

Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds, and shall find me, unafraid.

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The Soul's Captain"
by Orson F. Whitney*

Art thou in truth? Then what of Him
Who bought thee with His blood?
Who plunged into devouring seas
And snatched thee from the flood,

Who bore for all our fallen race
What none but Him could bear--
That God who died that man might live
And endless glory share.

Of what avail thy vaunted strength
Apart from His vast might?
Pray that His light may pierce the gloom
That thou mayest see aright.

Men are as bubbles on the wave,
As leaves upon the tree,
Thou, captain of thy soul! Forsooth,
Who gave that place to thee?

Free will is thine- free agency,
To wield for right or wrong;
But thou must answer unto Him
To whom all souls belong.

Bend to the dust that "head unbowed,"
Small part of life's great whole,
And see in Him and Him alone,
The captain of thy soul.

Plutarch wrote:We have two choices. Follow Him or not.

I love Invictus. I read it back when I was young and felt it spoke to me.

I then proceeded to try to let Jesus' handlers guide me. That was a ruinous decision.

I much prefer to guide my own life without prayer and supplication. It is much more reliable than letting an invisible something guide me.

"I took the one [that can only be] traveled by [me], and that has made all the difference."

Robert Frost, 1920. Mountain Interval wrote:The Road Not Taken

Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;

Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,

And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back.

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I-
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

80% of Americans believe in God.

Gazelam wrote:Wow, you were up REALLY late. that's usually how people write that time of the night/morning.

Disregarding the first 4/5ths of your post I would love to talk about the last two sentances.

The Laws of God exist to help us to understand the mind and will of our Father in Heaven. They teach us the culture of heaven. Christ taught that the beginning of following him was to be baptised. Baptism by immersion is followed by the reception of the Gift of the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost directs us in following Christs teachings if we live our lives in harmony with the gospel. Begin with this basic foundation, and your other questions will be answered.

Gaz

So, where is your own thought or action in this? It seems like a conscious decision to deny consciousness. If your only thought is to deny your thoughts and trust the thoughts of others (holy ghost, Christ, laws, etc.) then there seems to be very little growth potential.

Is the whole point to wait to grow until after death? Why wait? Isn't the "culture of heaven" one of eternal growth? Doesn't "Eternity" include now? Why, then, do the laws seem to punish those who question, or who seek to grow?

This is a new age version of Christianity. Jesus did not preach personal power, but instead that we are essentially slaves to the grace of God. We have two choices. Follow Him or not.

At least, that's what Paul said. Any intense study into the histories will show that Jesus (and many others) were trying to preach a message of personal power and enlightenment. Of course, the christian leaders were raised with the law, and wouldn't want to see the law obsoleted, of course they would hold to it. But strangely, while they held to the law, they also allowed power to overcome the law completely, until the law didn't even matter. It was just the tool they used to control by that point. Today, law's are a joke. Anyone with money can get away with anything. Power is lord.

My personal theory as to why the masses still try to hold to gospel law, is they want to go back to the "good old days." Laws without the corruption of power would, technically, keep a society in check. Although, it would not be very fair. Which is why the next evolution needs to be Ethics. It needs to be above law and above power -- something that each person takes ownership of, and something that each person holds themselves accountable to. Google is a prime example, with their motto "Don't be Evil" (Unfortuantely, after going public, the company has little control over this these days). Another prime example of ethical evolution is the company AES, an energy company with the ultimate goal of Fun at Work. (A great book for anyone, Joy at Work, by Dennis Bakke, CEO of AES).

Now, here's where my beliefs differ from most -- I believe in God a very pantheistic sense. I believe there is a single consciousness running the universes. I don't think it's benevolent, I think it's simply trying to imagine what infinity looks like, and it's succeeding.

I have a personal testimony of Christ, in that he is a son of this consciousness, born to bring about an evolutionary change, to bring us closer and closer to the ability to begin creating our own universes through our own imaginations -- because infinity must include infinite infinities. Whether he had supernatural powers or not doesn't matter, what matters is his message of love, which paved the road for an evolution of power-based thinking.

Sorry for the tangent -- Ritalin wore off a while ago.

The Holy Ghost is God.

If you get God to stay with you by living the gospel, he educates you in the knowledge of how things really are. You learn the truth of all things.

Gods ultimate goal is for you to not need him. The same goal you will have for your kids. For them to grow up, leave the house, and stand on their own.

It seems like control now, but I'm sure when your kids get to be teenagers, theyll say the same thing about you.

The commandments arent about control, theyre about right and wrong.

Gazelam wrote:The Holy Ghost is God.

If you get God to stay with you by living the gospel, he educates you in the knowledge of how things really are. You learn the truth of all things.

Gods ultimate goal is for you to not need him. The same goal you will have for your kids. For them to grow up, leave the house, and stand on their own.

It seems like control now, but I'm sure when your kids get to be teenagers, theyll say the same thing about you.

The commandments arent about control, theyre about right and wrong.

Which commandments, then? Obviously, some laws are not meant to be kept. For example, most of leviticus! If a son rebells against his father, the community should stone him to death? That commandment is ludicrous! The coming of Jesus has "fulfilled" those laws, and so we don't practice them anymore. We now think of more logical reasons for laws, and follow the reasoning, rather than the word of the law. It's called Ethics.

So, if I understand your second paragraph correctly -- if you shut off your brain, and follow the thoughts of [god, holy ghost, gospel, whatever], then God will just teach you everything? We have some pretty holy men, why don't they know everything, then? Why did they think the world was flat? Or that the sun revolved around the earth?

As for your first sentance, the holy ghost is God? How do you know that? And what does it mean to have the holy ghost?

And on a personal note... Just how much have you actually thought about this? And I mean THOUGHT, as in, away from emotions. 'Cause the statements are extremely lacking in substance. I just can't beleive that God would have so little to say, when there's an infinite universe out there to explore.

What commandments?

Well, Since the time of Christ, its basicly folowing the Spirit. The original ten commandments apply obviously, but you get a foundation by reading the sacriptures, and you just know what you should do. When you enjoy the company of the Holy Ghost, he talks to oyu. That still small voice is a real thing, and its beyond just a concience. when your not praying like you should, or doing the things you should (yes, that porn thing in your blog is a definate no no) you can feel the Holy Ghost leaveing you. He lives in your mind and in your heart. You know when hes there and when hes not.

it is not shutting off your brain. Do you shut off your brain when you go to school? its the same thing. Whats the ultimate goal of a teacher? For you to know what he/she knows by the time you leave their class, its the same thing.

As far as Holy men knowing everything. that's not the kind of knowledge God is interested in. That comes way later. For our purposes here and now we need to know the "Truth of all things" right from wrong, social growth. How to stay pure. heavenly knowledge on things like repairing car engines is on a need to know basis. Practical application. The Holy Ghost will "bring all things to your remembrance. No free rides.

Yes, the Holy Ghost is God. To be in the company of the Holy Ghost would be the same as being with Christ or the Father. If your living worthy to have the Holy Ghost with you, then its a safe bet your going to make it into the Celestial kingdom. reassureance in the here and now. Nice huh. I know that because the prophets in all dispensations testify of it. And the Holy Ghost told me so.

To have the Holy Ghost means to commune with God, to have him directing you and teaching you and guideing you in the things you need to be doing. It in no way is controling, it is prompting and suggesting.

I purposely wasn't getting deep. If you want deep Ill go deep. I was gonna do my post on Abraham this weekend, but I can change it to one on the Holy Ghost if you like.

Gaz

Gazelam wrote:What commandments?

Well, Since the time of Christ, its basicly folowing the Spirit. The original ten commandments apply obviously, but you get a foundation by reading the sacriptures, and you just know what you should do. When you enjoy the company of the Holy Ghost, he talks to oyu. That still small voice is a real thing, and its beyond just a concience. when your not praying like you should, or doing the things you should (yes, that porn thing in your blog is a definate no no) you can feel the Holy Ghost leaveing you. He lives in your mind and in your heart. You know when hes there and when hes not.

How do you know? Saying "You just know" is very vague. What about all those christians during the crusades, and the spanish inquisition? They "Just knew" that they were doing the Lords will, but by todays standards, what they did was barbaric! Under what tests can you affirm that you are "just know[ing]" correctly?

And a line of questioning on a different tangent: What authority describes these commandments as they pertain to the coming of the holy ghost? How is it known that watching pornography and masturbating does not bring the spirit into my life?

it is not shutting off your brain. Do you shut off your brain when you go to school? its the same thing. Whats the ultimate goal of a teacher? For you to know what he/she knows by the time you leave their class, its the same thing.

Actually, throughout school I often did feel like my brain was shut off, or at the very least, extremely slowed. Through self-study, I surpassed the required schooling by 6th grade. Many questions were shot down, or given incorrect answers. I would say the ultimate goal of a teacher would be to pass on their knowledge -- what happens when their knowledge is incorrect, or incomplete? Far too much trust is given to the teachers of today.

Of course, if God were to actually teach, and were he to have a perfect knowledge, then he wouldn't suffer from this affliction that the current educational system does. But for some reason, God wants to wait until after we die to pass on this perfect knowledge. So this brings me back to one of my initial questions: Why wait? Doesn't "eternity" include now?

And on the same line, if God teaches us through the holy spirit, why do you have sunday school? How do you know those teaching in sunday school are teaching the correct things? Does the holy spirit tell you? Then you didn't need to go in the first place, did you? But then, the holy spirit told you that you need to go, right? Seems particularly circular to me. If you need to expose yourself to a concept or idea in order to get the holy ghost to confirm or deny it's truthfulness, then why are certain ideas and concepts so taboo or restricted?

As far as Holy men knowing everything. that's not the kind of knowledge God is interested in. That comes way later. For our purposes here and now we need to know the "Truth of all things" right from wrong, social growth. How to stay pure. heavenly knowledge on things like repairing car engines is on a need to know basis. Practical application. The Holy Ghost will "bring all things to your remembrance. No free rides.

But these holy men speak from a position of authority about these subjects that God is not interested in. How are we to trust these men, if God is not interested in these things until after death?

Yes, the Holy Ghost is God. To be in the company of the Holy Ghost would be the same as being with Christ or the Father. If your living worthy to have the Holy Ghost with you, then its a safe bet your going to make it into the Celestial kingdom. reassureance in the here and now. Nice huh. I know that because the prophets in all dispensations testify of it. And the Holy Ghost told me so.

Reassurance? That's what the holy ghost gives you? Seems so.... Hollow. Don't take this the wrong way or anything, but reassurance doesn't seem like that great of a thing to strive for. Seems more like a control aspect.

An example for my point: A king taxes his people to the point of poverty. But, he says, Don't worry! These taxes now may be rough, but with them I will build a great kingdom! The people are reassured, but for what? They're still living in poverty, and they have no guarantee other than the kings words that their kingdom will be great. On some level, it takes the responsibility of helping to create a good community and kingdom out of their hands.

To bring it back -- if I were reassured that I'd have a good life in eternity, then there wouldn't really be any reason for me to work towards having a good life now. I'd just 'pay my dues', and wait for the goodness to come to me. Learning things like Programming, Psychology, History -- I'd have no need for this, because I feel no need to improve my life. It will be provided for me.

To have the Holy Ghost means to commune with God, to have him directing you and teaching you and guideing you in the things you need to be doing. It in no way is controling, it is prompting and suggesting.

I'm not suggesting that Laws are controlling. I'm suggesting that they're obsolete, and should be replaced with a system of Ethics, based on reasoning and logic. Rather than controls, I suggest education. If the Holy Ghost does educate, then we agree. Except, for some reason, the Holy Ghost will only educate when you're already practicing what it should be educating you about.... That seems counterproductive.

I purposely wasn't getting deep. If you want deep Ill go deep. I was gonna do my post on Abraham this weekend, but I can change it to one on the Holy Ghost if you like.

Gaz

I'm purposefully only going as deep as you're going. How far this goes is entirely up to how far down the rabbit hole you want to go. :)