Church Liability Insurance

Post by **_silentkid** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:29 pm

Does anyone know what the church's liability insurance covers? My mom slipped on a sheet of ice in the church parking lot on Sunday and broke her hip. We've had a lot of snow and ice here in Colorado the last few weeks but the church's lot was an impassable mess while commercial lots and neighborhoods have been cleaned and de-iced satisfactorily. My mom has medical insurance which will pay the emergency room bills, surgery, and hospitalization costs, but will be out of work during the healing and rehabilitation process. Is the church liable in this situation? Does their insurance cover lost wages and deductibles? Any help or links would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.

_Yoda · Post by **_Yoda** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:40 pm

I would check with your Bishop. He should know the policy, and what forms you need to fill out.

Post by **_silentkid** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:46 pm

We checked with the bishop but he said they didn't have anything. Then my dad talked to a member of the stake presidency who is a lawyer and he said there is some sort of packet describing liability that is given to bishops. I don't know why their bishop didn't mention it at first. It sounds to me like it is a don't tell policy. I'm wondering if someone knows if this is an accessible process or if my parents have to "lawyer up". My mom has already expressed concern that she doesn't want to sue the church. I don't think it's a matter of suing the church...it's a matter of gaining access to liability insurance that they most likely have.

_Yoda · Post by **_Yoda** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:55 pm

silentkid wrote:We checked with the bishop but he said they didn't have anything. Then my dad talked to a member of the stake presidency who is a lawyer and he said there is some sort of packet describing liability that is given to bishops. I don't know why their bishop didn't mention it at first. It sounds to me like it is a don't tell policy. I'm wondering if someone knows if this is an accessible process or if my parents have to "lawyer up". My mom has already expressed concern that she doesn't want to sue the church. I don't think it's a matter of suing the church...it's a matter of gaining access to liability insurance that they most likely have.

It could be that the bishop is simply ignorant. Either way, your Mom should DEFINITELY contact an attorney if necessary. You're right. It's not about suing the Church. This is a liability issue, and she is entitled to receive a payment from the liability insurance.

Post by **_harmony** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:55 pm

The church is likely self insured, which means, yes... your parents need to lawyer-up and make a claim.

This is where I get to say, once more: "I told you so!" When the church went to member-janitors, taking care of the parking lot became "someone else's responsibility". So no one cleans the parking lot, no one sweeps the sidewalks, no one lays the salt or de-icer down. And people fall, break bones, hit heads, and soon, we'll see a child slip under the wheels of a car and a real tragedy will occur.

One more time: OPEN THE DAMN BOOKS! Spend the billions on safe buildings and parking lots, instead of shopping malls! ARGH! The stupidity, the pride, the arrogance, the incredible GALL of our leaders just makes me gag.

Post by **_Who Knows** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:57 pm

silentkid wrote:...it's a matter of gaining access to liability insurance that they most likely have.

I would say that they most definitely have liability insurance. I would also add that it's not surprising that the bishop knows nothing about it. It's probably one of those things that you don't know about (or need to know about) until something like this happens.

I would also add that if the church cannot adequately maintain their parking and walking areas, then they should have canceled church that week. It's happened here in Utah in my ward before.

_rcrocket · Post by **_rcrocket** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:59 pm

The Church does not have liability insurance, so if you asked the bishop that question that is the answer you'd get. Like many large charitable, non-profit or even profit businesses, the Church is self-insured. The money you seek for your mother would come from tithing funds; not that that is bad, but that is where it would come from.

Simply write a letter to your bishop documenting your loss and requesting payment. Sure, you can follow the recommendations of the apostates on this board to hire an attorney and threaten the Church, but these things happen all the time. There is a high councilor in your stake responsible for the building and once the letter gets in his hands he'll know what to do.

P

Post by **_Lucretia MacEvil** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:02 pm

silentkid wrote:We checked with the bishop but he said they didn't have anything. Then my dad talked to a member of the stake presidency who is a lawyer and he said there is some sort of packet describing liability that is given to bishops. I don't know why their bishop didn't mention it at first. It sounds to me like it is a don't tell policy. I'm wondering if someone knows if this is an accessible process or if my parents have to "lawyer up". My mom has already expressed concern that she doesn't want to sue the church. I don't think it's a matter of suing the church...it's a matter of gaining access to liability insurance that they most likely have.

If it comes to a lawsuit, it will be her insurance company suing the church's insurance company (if that makes her feel any better about it). Whatever, she shouldn't accept any settlements from any insurance company until enough time has passed that she knows exactly what her damages are, and even then she probably should consult a personal injury attorney. Insurance companies these days just don't like to pay out, and I doubt the church-owned company is any different in that respect.

_Yoda · Post by **_Yoda** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:07 pm

Plutarch wrote:The Church does not have liability insurance, so if you asked the bishop that question that is the answer you'd get. Like many large charitable, non-profit or even profit businesses, the Church is self-insured. The money you seek for your mother would come from tithing funds; not that that is bad, but that is where it would come from.

Simply write a letter to your bishop documenting your loss and requesting payment. Sure, you can follow the recommendations of the apostates on this board to hire an attorney and threaten the Church, but these things happen all the time. There is a high councilor in your stake responsible for the building and once the letter gets in his hands he'll know what to do.

P

First of all, I'm not an apostate. And, recommending that his Mom hire an attorney is NOT synonymous with "threatening the Church". It's simply so that Silenkid's Mom knows what her rights are and how to proceed. When Silentkid went to the bishop, the bishop said that there wasn't any type of insurance. If his bishop had simply directed him to do what you just said to do, then there would be no further need for involvement by an attorney, but that wasn't what happened.

It sounds like you have a direction to go now, Silentkid. I would follow Plutarch's advice, and write a letter to the bishop documenting the loss. I would also cc it to the Stake President, since it sounds like he knew a little bit more about the process.

Post by **_silentkid** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:09 pm

Thanks for the posts. We've talked about the cleaning-the-church issue and the fact that they should have just cancelled the meetings since the parking lot was hazardous. I jokingly told my mom that the church should have a little money left over after renovating the malls to help subsidize her lost income. I'm going to talk to my dad about getting a lawyer. Maybe this will help the church rethink the new cleaning policy...maybe it won't even register as a blip on their radar.