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I used to like Steve, but something happened to him during his leave of absense from the RfM board. He has returned as a complete asshole. THe RfM board has really gone downhill the past few months to the point where I lurk for a few minutes and have no desire to post anything. It used to be the most addictive board on the net, now it's garbage. His behavior toward Dan Vogel yesterday was bizarre. He has become the Daniel C. Peterson of RfM, including the lapdogs that agree with everything he says and chase off anyone who dares question King Benson.

Hmmm....Interesting.

I haven't really followed RfM drama for quite a while. LOL

Well, welcome to the board! :)

I think that Shade's board is much more addicting than RfM. There are lots of great threads here.

Enjoy!

I love your sign-in name. You have a great sense of humor. You'll fit right in!

:)

SatanWasSetUp wrote:I used to like Steve, but something happened to him during his leave of absense from the RfM board. He has returned as a complete asshole. THe RfM board has really gone downhill the past few months to the point where I lurk for a few minutes and have no desire to post anything. It used to be the most addictive board on the net, now it's garbage. His behavior toward Dan Vogel yesterday was bizarre. He has become the Daniel C. Peterson of RfM, including the lapdogs that agree with everything he says and chase off anyone who dares question King Benson.

I had the same reaction. I can't understand why Benson is attacking Vogel with such vehemence. What did Vogel do to piss him off so badly?

I think the fact that Dan gets a hard time on RFM and MAD says a lot....

Apologists think he is too negative toward Joseph Smith,
Critics think he is too kind,

Sounds to me like he must be pretty honest and balanced to tick off both sides! LOL!

Unlike some authors who need to please a specific audience, Dan is more about presenting an honest picture.

:-)

~dancer~

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

SatanWasSetUp wrote:I used to like Steve, but something happened to him during his leave of absense from the RfM board. He has returned as a complete asshole. THe RfM board has really gone downhill the past few months to the point where I lurk for a few minutes and have no desire to post anything. It used to be the most addictive board on the net, now it's garbage. His behavior toward Dan Vogel yesterday was bizarre. He has become the Daniel C. Peterson of RfM, including the lapdogs that agree with everything he says and chase off anyone who dares question King Benson.

I had the same reaction. I can't understand why Benson is attacking Vogel with such vehemence. What did Vogel do to piss him off so badly?

Same here. I've had intermittent correspondence with Dan over several years, and he's one of the good ones: honest, thoughtful, and as objective as he could possibly be. I don't understand the hatred he's had thrown at him. Weird.

Well, it is not so weird actually.... he is too balanced and careful for most! :-)

The things is... scholars and historians praise him for his expertise and thoroughness! I pesonally heard a well respected PhD say Dan's latest book is as good as any text book in any university. (I think this is an exact quote but if not it is close).

Dan is a good friend of mine and he is soooooooooo careful in his research. He has the utmost integrity and decency in his work.

A few years ago I had written a paper (concerning Joseph Smith) and Dan reviewed it for me... he was so very careful about each little detail, making sure I did not present the wrong impression with certain words that may have been technically correct but possibly negativly interpreted.

I can't say enough abou this...

~dancer~

Could this reaction stem from taking a scholarly approach, as opposed to playing Pin the Tail on the Mormons?

I've had several run-ins with Benson over on RfM over the years. I gave up on RfM a long time ago, Benson was partly a reason for it.

As a caveat, I have little doubt that in person he may be a very nice guy, but his on-line persona is an insufferable, arrogant prick. I think (no I don't have a degree in psychology) that he is attracted to RfM, because he likes, no make that craves, being the Alpha Dog (much, I imagine, like DCP on the MAD Board), and RfM has sufficient syncophantic ass kissers to give even the enormous ego of Benson a good and satisfying stroking.

Dan went onto RFM a while ago (I can't remember how long ago, but I think it's been at least six months or longer) to talk about his Pious Fraud theory and had a very rough reception, then, as well. I lurk somewhat regularly on RFM but I don't really have emotional "needs" in regards to my Mormon exodus, and only post when certain topics interest me - like the Book of Mormon or Pious Fraud. So I jumped into the fray in an attempt to convince RFMers to at least be willing to consider Dan's theory. There were a few others who supported him or at least objected to the "gang bang" back then, too.

However, this time was much worse, and, in my opinion, it's due to Benson's involvement. He escalated the tone of personal derision and attack. And he just would not stop. Cabbie behaved very poorly last time, but finally had enough sense to withdraw from the conversation. Frankly, I was quite disappointed with Benson, having followed his story with interest. I had never interacted with him directly before, so was unprepared for his behavior. The obsessive need to keep making digs and sarcastic retorts reminded me of my exchanges with a couple of nastier believers on MAD, or EZboard. I really think it reflects more of a personality issue and doesn't have much to do with belief or lack thereof. It was very unpleasant, and I have been tempted to permanently disable my account so I'm never even tempted to post there again.

It is very sad. I don't know if my memory is hazy or if it really was different in the past, but I don't remember the board being quite this way. I seem to remember being able to discuss ideas from various viewpoints. Of course it's always been for nonbelievers, but there is a wide variety of opinions within that category.

And yes, moksha, I think it does have to do with Dan taking an objective, scholarly approach.

But you know, really, RFM isn't about being objective or scholarly. Many of the people there are so newly "out" that they are still very wounded and angry. They don't want or need to hear anyone telling them that Joseph Smith may have been a sincere believer. It's like the divorce - when you're first divorced, all you want to hear is how bad your ex was, and how it was all his/her fault. As time goes on, life continues, you heal, your realize that you had your own baggage, too. So perhaps it isn't fair of us to criticize RFM too much for this reaction. However, Benson clearly went around the bend. If he acts that way all the time, he will keep the board in a constant state of turmoil, because there will always be someone to bully. It is so disappointing to discover someone you followed with interest and viewed as a rational, intelligent person turns out to behave like a school yard bully.

by the way, I do believe satan was set up. In fact, if one were to follow through on Mormon theology to its logical conclusion, based on the fact that the plan of salvation wasn't new, and had been enacted with the same plot many times before, Satan KNEW what his end reward would be. And he still volunteered. Without satan, there would be no plan of salvation.

Jesus also fully knew what his final reward would be.

So who really engaged in the altruistic action?

(not to derail the thread, but couldn't help commenting on your name)