What if you ask and the anwer is.....

[_Jason Bourne]

...NO!


A hallmark of spiritual life in the LDS church is the concept of asking God for confirmation. We are told by "to search the scriptures... ask your heavenly Father in the name of Jesus Christ, to manifest the truth of it unto you....He will answer you. You will then know for yourself. Joseph Smith from Teachings of the prophet Joseph Smith. 11-12.

I am reading a FAIR paper in defense of much of what surrounded plural marriage. Much of it is well written and has some good ideas. But I came to this part about "No Church Member is obliged to blindly follow leaders past or present...)See Polygamy, Prophets, and Prevarication by Gregory Smith, M.D, Page 16.

Smith spends a some time on this idea. He notes that Joseph asked other to pray about polygamy, whether it came from God and to get their own confirmation it is true. Many did so and testify they did get confirmation. The obeyed and entered into the principle. They are the true faithful. They passed the test.

But what of others. Does one thing that Sidney Rig don did not seek God's mind about this? How about William Law or William Marks? They are viewed as not faithful and failing this Abrahamic test. Why? What if they got the right answer, that polygamy is not of God. What if I or some of the others here got an answer that polygamy or some other things was not from God.

Are we wrong?

It seems to me that the only time this idea of asking and not fallowing leaders blindly works is when the person gets and answer that yes, the leader is right, what they are teaching is true. If someone gets a different answer then they are not faithful, failing the test or whatever.

So what is it? Can one really pray and get an answer that the Prophet it wrong? Or is it as it appears? The only correct answer that is allowed is "The issue I prayed about really is truth."

[_The Dude]

...NO!


A hallmark of spiritual life in the LDS church is the concept of asking God for confirmation. We are told by "to search the scriptures... ask your heavenly Father in the name of Jesus Christ, to manifest the truth of it unto you....He will answer you. You will then know for yourself. Joseph Smith from Teachings of the prophet Joseph Smith. 11-12.

I am reading a FAIR paper in defense of much of what surrounded plural marriage. Much of it is well written and has some good ideas. But I came to this part about "No Church Member is obliged to blindly follow leaders past or present...)See Polygamy, Prophets, and Prevarication by Gregory Smith, M.D, Page 16.

Smith spends a some time on this idea. He notes that Joseph asked other to pray about polygamy, whether it came from God and to get their own confirmation it is true. Many did so and testify they did get confirmation. The obeyed and entered into the principle. They are the true faithful. They passed the test.

But what of others. Does one thing that Sidney Rig don did not seek God's mind about this? How about William Law or William Marks? They are viewed as not faithful and failing this Abrahamic test. Why? What if they got the right answer, that polygamy is not of God. What if I or some of the others here got an answer that polygamy or some other things was not from God.

Are we wrong?

It seems to me that the only time this idea of asking and not fallowing leaders blindly works is when the person gets and answer that yes, the leader is right, what they are teaching is true. If someone gets a different answer then they are not faithful, failing the test or whatever.

So what is it? Can one really pray and get an answer that the Prophet it wrong? Or is it as it appears? The only correct answer that is allowed is "The issue I prayed about really is truth."

Nice going Jason! Pretty soon you're going to think your way right out of Mormonism. :)

It's the same problem with Moroni's so-called promise. It's presented as a test, a way to know for yourself that the Book of Mormon is true; but if you don't get the "right" answer then you are doing something wrong. Keep trying until you do get the right answer.

[_SatanWasSetUp]

...NO!


A hallmark of spiritual life in the LDS church is the concept of asking God for confirmation. We are told by "to search the scriptures... ask your heavenly Father in the name of Jesus Christ, to manifest the truth of it unto you....He will answer you. You will then know for yourself. Joseph Smith from Teachings of the prophet Joseph Smith. 11-12.

I am reading a FAIR paper in defense of much of what surrounded plural marriage. Much of it is well written and has some good ideas. But I came to this part about "No Church Member is obliged to blindly follow leaders past or present...)See Polygamy, Prophets, and Prevarication by Gregory Smith, M.D, Page 16.

Smith spends a some time on this idea. He notes that Joseph asked other to pray about polygamy, whether it came from God and to get their own confirmation it is true. Many did so and testify they did get confirmation. The obeyed and entered into the principle. They are the true faithful. They passed the test.

But what of others. Does one thing that Sidney Rig don did not seek God's mind about this? How about William Law or William Marks? They are viewed as not faithful and failing this Abrahamic test. Why? What if they got the right answer, that polygamy is not of God. What if I or some of the others here got an answer that polygamy or some other things was not from God.

Are we wrong?

It seems to me that the only time this idea of asking and not fallowing leaders blindly works is when the person gets and answer that yes, the leader is right, what they are teaching is true. If someone gets a different answer then they are not faithful, failing the test or whatever.

So what is it? Can one really pray and get an answer that the Prophet it wrong? Or is it as it appears? The only correct answer that is allowed is "The issue I prayed about really is truth."

I had a dog and his name was BINGO!!!!

Jason, these are the type of internal discussions I started having with myself that eventually led to my disbelief. Just keep in mind that this is like taking the Red pill (or was it the blue pill?) in the Matrix. Once you take the pill, there's no going back.

[_Mr. Coffee]

It seems to me that the only time this idea of asking and not fallowing leaders blindly works is when the person gets and answer that yes, the leader is right, what they are teaching is true. If someone gets a different answer then they are not faithful, failing the test or whatever.

Notice that the person who did not recieve the same answer as the leadership is the one who is somehow "unfaithful"? In that context, the entire "Pray for confirmation" is false. If you are to pray on an issue and ask for "God's" guidence, under the situation you describe you have the choice of either A. trusting in the answer "God" gives you, or B. going with what everyone else thinks in order to fit in.

The only correct answer that is allowed is "The issue I prayed about really is truth as long as it is the same answer the leadership got."

Corrected to reflect the OP.

[_Jason Bourne]

Well three posts all agree that this is an issue and may such thoughts may be leading me to give up belief.

What do some of the more solid TBMs think about this? Is this not really a dilemma? How can it be pray for yourself and find out but the only true answer is the one that agrees to the prophet. Why pray and ask then?

[_Mercury]

Jason, this thinking is spot on. If there is never an answer to Moronis promise other than "Yes, Mormonism is true" then there was never a real test to begin with.

Keep at it. Your almost there.

I want to congratulate you without sounding condescending, hehe.

[_asbestosman]

Well three posts all agree that this is an issue and may such thoughts may be leading me to give up belief.

What do some of the more solid TBMs think about this? Is this not really a dilemma? How can it be pray for yourself and find out but the only true answer is the one that agrees to the prophet. Why pray and ask then?

Jason, please ask your bishop, home-teachers, spouse, parents, or others who are close to you. I am really not all that good at such things. My problem being that I'm not particularly skilled at discerning the spirit and even less so at explaining it.

I think part of the solution may be that those who receive the correct answer through prayer also see that is was in fact the correct answer by the consequences. Now perhaps you will say that the consequences of polygamy demonstrate that is was not of God. I don't wish to argue about polygamy. I will grant that some mistakes may have been made in that area. I don't know. What I am sure of, however, is that there are many other indications that the church is true.

I hope someone will be able to help you better than I can.

[_Lucretia MacEvil]

Didn't Brigham Young say that when you don't agree with a leader you should get on your knees and pray until you do agree? There is always only one right answer.

[_Sethbag]

I think the "faithful" answer is that you're not praying to find out if [church | Book of Mormon | whatever] is true. You're praying for confirmation that it's true. In that context, yeah, you either find out its true (ie: pass the test) or you don't find it's true (ie: fail the test, or else God is trying your faith), but the truth of the matter is never up for grabs, not really.

Jason, I think you're thinking is pretty good on this one. I totally agree with the others, and regard this as a watershed moment of opportunity to gain insight into the reality of the church and the belief system. A good followup question to this is what does mean when one TBM prays about something and gets one answer, like that Noah's Ark didn't happen and it's only allegorical or metaphorical, while another TBM prays about it, and believes God is confirming to him that it in fact happened exactly as described in Genesis, (ie: worldwide, catastrophic flood, Noah and his family the only surviving homo sapiens on the planet, etc.)?

For that matter, a really good followup question is how can you tell that any spiritual confirmation you receive to any LDS question is really any different than the spiritual confirmations that other members of others churches receive, even on questions whose answers are mutually-exclusive with LDS claims or teachings?

What does it mean when an FLDS receives a spiritual confirmation that Warren Jeffs truly is God's chosen mouthpiece on earth? What is materially different about the nature of the spiritual witness an LDS receives from the witnesses attested to by others, which LDS must admit cannot all be true?

[_Mr. Coffee]

I think part of the solution may be that those who receive the correct answer through prayer also see that is was in fact the correct answer by the consequences.

In certain situations what is correct answer by the consequences is not the same for everyone. What happens when what is the right consequence for you is different from that of your church's leadership? Under the OP's premise that would mean that you would be considered "wrong" for not getting the "right" answer.

All that makes this "pray on it until you get the approved answer" stuff is an institutional social control.