considering the truth of the Book of Mormon

[_grampa75]

I would like to present a few positive prophecies concerning the Book of Mormon. There are many more which I will try also to write later.

I have a difficult in trying to identify with those who can’t believe in the Mormon Church for one reason or another. All scripture points to the time when God will come to the earth and will establish the Kingdom of God. For example let’s read St. Peter:

Acts 3: 19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

20. And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you.

21. Whom the heaven the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

It appears to me, at least that something was lacking in the gospel that had to be restored. However, it wasn’t just something that was lacking, since the scripture informs us that it was ALL things that had to be restored. Anyone should be proficient enough in our scriptures that it was all things that had to be restored. It is prophesied that God will send Jesus Christ to restore all things, whom of course was spoken of before when His apostles were teaching on the earth. The apostles were taught the complete plan of God to the very end of this world of ours.

Others say that the time of Prophets are over and that God has inspired men to teach men what is going to take place in times to come but that seems to contradict what the scriptures reveal to us.

Amos 3: 7 Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret to his servants the Prophets.

The prophet Daniel told Nebuchadnezzar that when Nebuchadnezzar’s kingdom would be broken up into ten kingdoms, then that would be the time when God would set up his kingdom on the earth, as Nebuchadnezzar saw the Image had ten toes, which stands for the ten kingdoms.

The Church was established in the year of 1830, which was the time that Joseph Smith was still working of the tablets of brass or gold or both. I copied that information from the Internet since someone in here disagreed with me about the time that the Kingdom of Greece was established.

The Ottomans ruled Greece until the early 19th century. On March 25, 1821 (also the same day as the Greek Orthodox day of the Annunciation of the Theotokos), the Greeks rebelled and declared their independence, but did not achieve it until 1829. The big European powers saw the war of Greek independence, with its accounts of Turkish atrocities, in a romantic light (see, for example, the 1824 painting Massacre of Chios by Eugène Delacroix). Scores of non-Greeks volunteered to fight for the cause, including Lord Byron. At times the Ottomans seemed on the point of suppressing the Greek revolution but for the threatened direct military intervention of France, England or Russia. The Russian minister for foreign affairs, Ioannis Kapodistrias, himself a Greek, returned home as President of the new Republic following Greek independence. That republic disappeared when the European powers helped turn Greece into a monarchy; the first king, Otto came from Bavaria and the second, George I from Denmark.

Greece was the tenth kingdom from Nebuchadnezzar and became a Kingdom in 1829, the same time as the Book of Mormon was being translated and God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ had appeared to the fourteen year old boy Joseph Smith.
I believe, personally, that the word “Salvation” is misinterpreted by most of the Christian society. A person would have to ask himself or her what they needed to be saved from. That is a viable question since we had a way to find forgiveness for any sin we committed personally since the time of Abraham and was restored by God once again during the time of Moses.

Leviticus 6: 6 And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the Lord, a ram without blemish out of the flock, with thy estimation, for a trespass offering, unto the priest.

7: And the priest shall make an atonement for him before the Lord: and it shall be forgiven him for any things of all that he hath done in trespassing therein.

If we had a way to be forgiven for any sin we committed at the time of Moses, why was it necessary for God to replace the sacrifice of animals for any sin you committed and circumcision in place of baptism? Let me give you my opinion: Jesus Christ fulfilled the Law of circumcision and replaced that Law with the ordinance of Baptism. Jesus Christ also fulfilled the Law of sacrifice because of the fact that after the Savior’s sacrifice there could not be a better sacrifice. It had to be a blood atonement to point to the blood that Christ gave for mankind. This earth has fulfilled the Law of circumcision and blood atonement with the blood of Jesus Christ. It was ONLY THE LAWS OF CIRCUMISION AND SACRIFICE that was fulfilled by the Savior. I can’t see why it was necessary for the blood of Christ to be shed unless it was for one sin only that man had no way to be forgiven for. That sin would be the sin that Adam committed in the Garden of Eden, or the simple disobedience of Adam that brought eternal spiritual death into the world. Man had no way from the time of Adam to the time of Jesus Christ to rise from the grave and stand before God. However, after the sacrifice of Jesus Christ the first resurrection began.

Matthew 27: 50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

51. And behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent.

52. And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53. And came out of the graves, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

It’s very simple to discern that we now look to Baptism as a way to enter into the family of God just as Circumcision used to be. But there was NO resurrection until after Christ paid the debt for the transgression of Adam in the Garden of Eden. Allow me to write down an LDS verse and you be the judge of it. I care but the world doesn’t.

Ether 3: 14 Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people. Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son. In me shall ALL mankind have life, and that eternally. Even they who believe on my name shall become my sons and my daughters.

Do LDS believe that there are three different and distinct Gods assisting in our Eternal Progress? Yes! However, even though we know that there are many Gods in the immensity of space and the work of God, which is to teach all people to become perfect, will never end, since there are no to the spirit entities known as “Intelligence.” Intelligence if the spirit entity that will be made human kind. But the question is: how is Christ both the Father and the Son? Jesus Christ is the Son of God to most of the world, but when we take upon ourselves His name by entering into his family by being baptized, He then becomes our Father. Doesn’t it seem logical that if Jesus Christ would become our Father that we would, at the same, become His sons and his daughters. Then you have to ask yourself: “Am I one of Gods sons or his daughters?” I have to answer that question and say: No, you can’t be a son of God IF you have not been baptized by one having the authority to baptize.

My son when on a mission to Argentina, where he met a man who was lacking in mental capacity. His one desire was to become a policeman. His mother, being broken hearted, made a policeman’s uniform and allowed him to go out and write down parking tickets to everyone who was illegally parked. After one year he decided that if he was helping the police department he should be paid for his service. So he went to City Hall and turned all the tickets he had given to people over the past year and demanded to be paid. Of course you can imagine what was said because of the man not have any authority to give a person a parking ticket. If our system of government demands a person has authority to act in the capacity they have been given, how much more do you suppose that God would demand the same?

Before the restoration of the Kingdom of God it was prophesied that Elijah the prophet would be sent to turn the hearts of the children to the fathers and so on.

Malachi 4: 5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

6. And he shall turn the heart of the Fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

In the year 1836, Elijah appeared at the dedication of the Kirkland Temple to a number of people.

Doctrine and Covenants 110: 13 After this vision had closed, another great and glorious vision burst upon us; for Elijah the prophet, who was taken to heaven without tasting death, stood before us, and said:

14. Behold, the time has fully come, which was spoken of by the mouth of Malachi----testifying that he (Elijah) should be sent, before the great and dreadful day of the Lord come------

15. To turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the children to the fathers, lest the whole earth be smitten with a curse—

Therefore, the keys of this dispensation are committed unto your hands; and by this ye may know that the great and dreadful day of the Lord is near, even at the doors.

Many people say that Joseph Smith rounded up a lot of misfits to testify of the validity of these things in order to do------to do what? Suffer, have your children killed, have to work like any other man for a living and finally die as a Martyr?

Oliver Cowdery, Martin Harris, and David Whitmere, were all three witness to hear an angel of God tell them that what Joseph Smith had received and did was of HIM. But later all three of these men left the Church and out of the three only Oliver Cowdery came back. You might believe that these were not very good witnesses, but not one of them ever testified that what they had testified to when they all said that they had seen an angel of God and heard that angel speak and bear witness to the divinity of the Book of Mormon and Jesus Christ. Oliver was a very well educated man being a lawyer, and it was brought up one time in court, by the opposition, of the false testimony he had once given of seeing an angel of God. He stood up at that time and testified once again that the witness of seeing an angel of God and work as a translator for Joseph Smith and saw the ancient plates one time, which the ancient history had been recorded on, was true. He immediately packed all that he possessed and left to go to Salt Lake City and beg Brigham Young to restore his membership in the Church.

I would like someone to interpret this next verse for me.

Amos 8: 11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord.

Since we have always had the scriptures with us, then why is it that we can’t hear the words of the Lord? To me in means that God will not talk directly to people during what is know as the Dark Ages. We will still have our scriptures but the Lord will not speak to man during that time and up to the restoration of all things ever spoken of by the mouths of all the holy prophet since the world began, it is direct communication from Jesus Christ to a Prophet of Christ’s choosing.
Isaiah 29: 1: Woe to Ariel, to Ariel, the city where David dwelt! Add ye year to year; let them kill. Sacrifices.

2. Yet I will distress Ariel, and there shall be heaviness and sorrow: and it shall be unto me as Ariel.

3. And I will camp against thee round about, and will lay siege against thee with a mount, and I will raise forts against thee.

4. And thou shalt be brought down, and thou shalt speak out of th3e ground, and thy speech shall be low out of the dust, and thy voice shall be, as of one that hath a familiar spirit, out of the ground, and thy speech shall whisper out of the dust,

8. It shall even be as when an hungry man dreameth, and behold, he eateth; but he awaketh, and his sould is empty; or as when a thirsty man dreameth, and behold, he drinketh; but he awaketh, and, behold, he is faint, and his soul hath appetite so shall the multitude of all the nation’s be, that fight against mount Zion.

10. For the Lord hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes; the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.

11. And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a BOOK that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee; and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:

12. And the BOOK is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee; and he saith, I am not learned.

13. Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near to me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of mean;

14. Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvelous work among this people, even a marvelous work and a wonder; for the wisdom of the wise men shall perish, and the understanding of the prudent men shall be hid.

I would also like anyone to give me their interpretation of those few verses other than the people of God being brought down because of their iniquity and shall speak from the ground as the words of A BOOK that is sealed. Wouldn’t you say that it is a prophecy that an ancient book will come forth, which is added to the Bible, to help all people to come to a true knowledge of the Lord? Couldn’t that, by chance, be the ancient Book of Mormon, which speaks of an ancient civilization of people who once lived on this continent?

I will write a few more prophecies later on but right now, I’m tired of writing.
Grampa75

[_Jersey Girl]

grampa75,

You put alot of work into your post! You ask this question:

"I would like someone to interpret this next verse for me.

Amos 8: 11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord. "

I think that if you study Amos in the historical context in which he prophesied , you will have your answer. The text, in my view, is directed toward a specific group in a specific time period.

Jersey Girl

[_truth dancer]

Hi Grampa....

I have a difficult in trying to identify with those who can’t believe in the Mormon Church for one reason or another.

Interesting.... are you saying you do not understand why most people do not believe in your church?

Can you see any possible reasons why it doesn't sound right or seem true? Why it seems like every other religion out there, to many people?

Just curious.... :-)

~dancer~

[_Mephitus]

For me personaly, it begins with my base issues with christianity, it then sums up with the many many issues that plague Mormonism.

I can't really find much of anything that i agree with in basic christianity. It all just seems so full of hate and predjiduce towards anyone outside of what was anciently thought wrong and spinned that it was all in the name of some hatefull god of war.

[_Jersey Girl]

For me personaly, it begins with my base issues with christianity, it then sums up with the many many issues that plague Mormonism.

I can't really find much of anything that I agree with in basic christianity. It all just seems so full of hate and predjiduce towards anyone outside of what was anciently thought wrong and spinned that it was all in the name of some hatefull god of war.

You think the teachings of Jesus are hatefilled?

Jersey Girl

[_Fortigurn]

The prophet Daniel told Nebuchadnezzar that when Nebuchadnezzar’s kingdom would be broken up into ten kingdoms, then that would be the time when God would set up his kingdom on the earth, as Nebuchadnezzar saw the Image had ten toes, which stands for the ten kingdoms.

No Daniel didn't. He said that there would be three kingdoms which would come after Nebuchadnezzar's, and that the last one of those would be broken up into weak and strong parts (he said nothing of ten kingdoms). He said that these parts would mingle in unsuccessful attempts to recombine the previous empire. Since the fourth kingdom was Rome, since the Roman empire disintegrated into weak and strong parts, and since that is the empire which the parts have tried to recombine ever since, you should be looking at the European Union as a fulfilment of this prophecy.

[_Fortigurn]

For me personaly, it begins with my base issues with christianity, it then sums up with the many many issues that plague Mormonism.

I can't really find much of anything that I agree with in basic christianity. It all just seems so full of hate and predjiduce towards anyone outside of what was anciently thought wrong and spinned that it was all in the name of some hatefull god of war.

You think the teachings of Jesus are hatefilled?

Yeah, bit funny since he's a pagan, and they believe in stabbing people in the face with spears and hacking their heads off with axes. I mean, the Vikings were pagans, and that's what they did, so yeah, proves it.

[_Fortigurn]

I can't really find much of anything that I agree with in basic christianity.

How does the golden rule grab you? It's a whole lot better than the pseudo-pagan 'Wiccan Rede'.

[_Mephitus]

heh, the fluffy wiccan rule. fu**'em i say. (im black hat) Theres a rather large difference in belief and action with wiccans compaired to Asatru. If you want a good idea on the ethics of Asatru, listen to the podcast @ http://ravencast.podbean.com specificaly episode 5. (you don't need itunes or a ipod to listen)

With the gods i follow, i know exactly where they stand. Not some claim of being a "loving god" *unless* you are not a follower, then your screwed. As far as the golden rule, its kind of bubkis for me. try this on for size, slightly different wording, but a world apart in meaning, "Treat people as they expect to be treated". With those that have earned even a modicom of respect from me, i do this to the best of my ability.

[_Fortigurn]

heh, the fluffy wiccan rule. fu**'em I say. (I'm black hat)

That's the spirit!

Theres a rather large difference in belief and action with wiccans compaired to Asatru. If you want a good idea on the ethics of Asatru, listen to the podcast @ http://ravencast.podbean.com specificaly episode 5. (you don't need itunes or a ipod to listen)

I expect you care as much about different denominations of Christianity as I care about different strains of pseudo-paganism. But I do like to be informed, so thanks for the link.

With the gods I follow, I know exactly where they stand. Not some claim of being a "loving god" *unless* you are not a follower, then your screwed.

I agree. The God I follow isn't like that.

As far as the golden rule, its kind of bubkis for me. try this on for size, slightly different wording, but a world apart in meaning, "Treat people as they expect to be treated". With those that have earned even a modicom of respect from me, I do this to the best of my ability.

That is indeed a world apart in meaning. It's utterly self-centered, rather than being self-sacrificial.