Latter-Day Divorce

[_moksha]

There is an extremely interesting thread on the MAD forum by Why Me about a talk on Divorce at the recent LDS General Conference.
These quotes especially caught my attention:

I thought that the GA who spoke on divorce was kind of tough on divorcees. I was cringing when I listened to his words. I have no idea what divorcees were feeling but I was feeling a little uncomfortable for them.

I thought that the talk could have been more sensitive to people who are already divorced. But perhaps I misread the GA's remarks. But I have this feeling that divorcees like myself, were squirming a little.

QUOTE(why me @ Apr 2 2007, 10:47 AM) The consevative LDS are off base here breathing fire and brimstone about sin and repentance. When in fact, what is needed is just some understanding and some heart. But also, divorce cannot be put in one basket. Divorce has many baskets to choose from since there are many reasons for divorce. But for the mutual divorce between two people who separate on good terms...one only needs understanding and heart and wish them well.

Of course, Why Me met some opposition. Thankfully Severian also spoke up.

Read all about it: http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index.php?showtopic=23144

[_beastie]

I read that one, too. I felt very sorry for Marie Osmond, whose upcoming divorce was just publicly announced. I think it's obvious she and her husband tried to keep that marriage together - they almost divorced once before. The poor woman has been so depressed it's been rumored she tried to commit suicide - even if that rumor isn't true, by her own admission, she has struggled mightily with depression for years.

Someone like this, who was born and bred LDS, is already beating herself up over her marital failure. I didn't hear the conference talk, but from how it was depicted on MAD, it sounded like one more good kick to someone who is already down.

And Marie is just the famous face, for which there are thousands unnamed others. I don't get these people who apparently think ANYONE, but particularly Mormons with their indoctrination, divorce as anything other than a last resort to save their sanity.

Wonder if this will silence those on MAD who feel divorce is justified for "spiritual infidelity"?

[_asbestosman]

Wonder if this will silence those on MAD who feel divorce is justified for "spiritual infidelity"?

I more or less asked that question. The answer seems to be that it's still justified.

[_beastie]

After that talk they still feel justified? Wow.

[_asbestosman]

After that talk they still feel justified? Wow.

Well, it's not like I ever got a straight answer.

Sometimes I fear that there are those who use divorce as a way to beat their wayward/wavering spouse into submission albeit without awareness of that fact.

[_Alter Idem]

Wonder if this will silence those on MAD who feel divorce is justified for "spiritual infidelity"?

I more or less asked that question. The answer seems to be that it's still justified.

I wonder how anyone can justify divorce for "spiritual infidelity" after Elder Oaks' talk. I'll have to listen to it again and see what I'm missing, but it seemed to me that he would not condone divorce for what some on the boards have labeled "spiritual infidelity".

I thought Elder Oaks' talk was necessary. From my observations, Mormons have adopted the same casual attitude towards divorce as society around us. I think he was trying to offer a "wake-up" call that we need to correct our thinking once again. If a person was feeling uncomfortable with his comments, they can always counsel with their Bishop and pray for guidance in determining if the guilt feelings are justified or not.

[_ozemc]

What I find interesting about all of it is how my personal experience manifests itself.

My wife, who is as TBM as the rest of them, even though she does seem to be questioning more nowadays, was married in the temple to her 1st husband (I'm #2).

We've had the talk about how, when she dies, she goes to spend eternity with him, and, I guess, never sees me again.

I did tell her I thought that was kind of cruel, but I do think she's kind of put off really thinking about it, and just sort of lets it go.

Like so many have said, divorce has many reasons, some of which can be pretty nasty.

To try to beat if over someone's head that they are "bad" or a "failure" because they are getting a divorce is just plain wrong, in my opinion.

[_Alter Idem]

I read that one, too. I felt very sorry for Marie Osmond, whose upcoming divorce was just publicly announced. I think it's obvious she and her husband tried to keep that marriage together - they almost divorced once before. The poor woman has been so depressed it's been rumored she tried to commit suicide - even if that rumor isn't true, by her own admission, she has struggled mightily with depression for years.

Someone like this, who was born and bred LDS, is already beating herself up over her marital failure. I didn't hear the conference talk, but from how it was depicted on MAD, it sounded like one more good kick to someone who is already down.

And Marie is just the famous face, for which there are thousands unnamed others. I don't get these people who apparently think ANYONE, but particularly Mormons with their indoctrination, divorce as anything other than a last resort to save their sanity.

Wonder if this will silence those on MAD who feel divorce is justified for "spiritual infidelity"?

I think Marie hung in that marriage for a long time. I feel bad for her because I think she did not want to give up, but I think she got to the breaking point. My sister finally went through her second divorce, but it took her about 7 years to get to the point where she could accept her own sense of failure at a second marriage failing.

There were rumors of a suicide attempt, however, more likely, I suspect it was due to her ongoing struggle with medications for dealing with her depression. It is very easy to have an accidental overdose or other ill effects when a person is taking medications-especially these days with the number of prescription medications which are handed out for whatever ails us. Anna Nicole Smith's death is a perfect example of that.

I've seen couples who divorce, only to do no better or even worse in their second marriage. For some, they might have done better to stay with the first spouse and put the effort into saving the marriage. I think those are the kind of marriage difficulties Elder Oaks was addressing. I don't think he's expecting them to stay miserably married, but to try to work out their difficulties so they can recapture and even deepen the love which brought them together in the first place.

[_moksha]

More from MAD:

QUOTE(why me @ Apr 2 2007, 12:55 AM)
Well, this is the point. Since when is divorce a sin? I have never heard it discussed as a sin in the LDS church. And that was my point also. It is not a sin to divorce and if it is not a sin, why repent? And why be judged harshly for not sinning? Now I know that there are divorces where the divorce was unnecessary or that the person left with ill intent. Yes, that person needs to repent for treating another human being harshly. But when two people mutually decide to separate, where is the sin?

QUOTE (cjcampbell Today, 11:34 AM Post #167) It is a sin. The Savior himself declared that those who divorce commit adultery. General authorities have frequently upheld that statement. In our more 'enlightened' time (meaning more tolerant of sin) the Church has had to deal with many more divorced members, but it has never changed its stance.

The whole point of exaltation is that your spouse cannot turn into a demon. You become perfect, incorruptible. No one falls from godhood. You "go no more out." This is the time of our probation. A bazillion years into the future will not bring another time of probation. People do not change in that way. They will always be perfect, omniscient beings.

[_Jersey Girl]

(cjcampbell Today, 11:34 AM Post #167) It is a sin. The Savior himself declared that those who divorce commit adultery.

NO, he did not. Did anyone challenge that erroneous statement?

Jersey Girl