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_Runtu
_Emeritus
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Post by _Runtu »

Ray A wrote:You're on a mission, aren't you, and let me tell you, like Pahoran, I hold all of you in utter contenpt.


That's OK, Ray. I don't hold you (or Pahoran) in contempt. I've appreciated this strange turn of events here in that it has reminded me that, in the end, we're just people who happen to disagree about a particular religious perspective. That's all. I don't see the need to get all worked up about it.
Runtu's Rincón

If you just talk, I find that your mouth comes out with stuff. -- Karl Pilkington
_Ray A

Post by _Ray A »

Runtu wrote:
Ray A wrote:You're on a mission, aren't you, and let me tell you, like Pahoran, I hold all of you in utter contenpt.


That's OK, Ray. I don't hold you (or Pahoran) in contempt. I've appreciated this strange turn of events here in that it has reminded me that, in the end, we're just people who happen to disagree about a particular religious perspective. That's all. I don't see the need to get all worked up about it.


Hopefully, you will see the light again. The bats in this cave of darkness don't.
_Runtu
_Emeritus
Posts: 16721
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:06 am

Post by _Runtu »

Ray A wrote:Hopefully, you will see the light again. The bats in this cave of darkness don't.


I see the light, Ray, in the teachings of Jesus (I still believe in Jesus): Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Kindness, humility, honesty, compassion--these are the important things. I'm doing my best to get rid of the anger and condemnation and contempt. I hope we all do.
Runtu's Rincón

If you just talk, I find that your mouth comes out with stuff. -- Karl Pilkington
_Ray A

Post by _Ray A »

Runtu wrote:
Ray A wrote:Hopefully, you will see the light again. The bats in this cave of darkness don't.


I see the light, Ray, in the teachings of Jesus (I still believe in Jesus): Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Kindness, humility, honesty, compassion--these are the important things. I'm doing my best to get rid of the anger and condemnation and contempt. I hope we all do.


I'm glad to hear that.
_Dr. Shades
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Post by _Dr. Shades »

Ray A wrote:
Runtu wrote:That's OK, Ray. I don't hold you (or Pahoran) in contempt. I've appreciated this strange turn of events here in that it has reminded me that, in the end, we're just people who happen to disagree about a particular religious perspective. That's all. I don't see the need to get all worked up about it.


Hopefully, you will see the light again. The bats in this cave of darkness don't.


I don't hold you in contempt either, Ray.

But as far as "this cave of darkness" is concerned, aren't you biting the hand that feeds you? As many times as you have called this place a "cesspool" and other charming epithets, do you think that MA&D would've let you stick around with your recent rhetoric as long as MormonDiscussions has?

Not only that, but never dinged you, never red-texted you, never queued you, never warned you, and never banned you?
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"

--Louis Midgley
_Ray A

Post by _Ray A »

Shades,

I appreciate your comments, and let me reiterate again, I have nothing against you personally. I explained to Liz in a PM that I now feel that a more moderated board is better. I've managed to stay on FAIR/MAD for three years, and only ever had one mod warning, very early on, no doubt partly because I'm more sympathetic to Mormons, but with rules one also tends to be more conscious of what is said. Having a board with less rules and moderation is okay if most of the posters share similar worldviews, but when you have Mormons and exmos on the same forum, and few rules, I don't believe it will work properly. My long history of contention with exmos goes back to RFM, and I have learned by sad experience that we will never agree, and this final episode proves it. I feel more comfortable among the believers, and my anger seldom if ever surfaces. I have tried to "fit in" with exmos many times, and it never works.

I will leave brave (or some would say foolish) Wade to cut the ice, but I'm heading for the tropics. When my admiration for Pahoran rises so sharply, I know it's time to depart, like he eventually did. Water and oil don't mix. My "analysis" of my Mormon journey will continue on MAD, where I believe I will receive a more understanding ear, even if it means occasionally checking what I write. I share neither the cynicism nor contempt of Mormons I see among some here, nor do I have any desire nor agenda to change the Church, so we have nothing to discuss. I respect the Church, I respect its leaders, and it pains me to see them denigrated in any way. They are accused of so many wrongs, yet I know and have met many of these men in the flesh, and I know they are not guilty of charges so often laid against them. Worst of all, is that having met Dan Peterson, I abhor the accusations made against him, because I know he's a man of integrity and honesty, who wishes to see a better world, who is straightforward concerning his beliefs, always willing to hear others who talk to him reasonably and respect his beliefs, yet he is so often made out to be a villain, a liar, corrupt, immoral, and just about anything which fits evil or dishonest. It disturbs him too, and I know this for a fact. He is completely perplexed at the hatred demonstrated against him, even by people he has never met nor personally offended. Apparently, his greatest fault is being a believer and an apologist.

Let the venom spew forth. I will have no part of it.
_beastie
_Emeritus
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Post by _beastie »

DCP has every right to defend himself and to protest poor treatment, as do his friends. That isn't the issue here, Ray. I stress that I have never said otherwise, nor have I ever claimed the exmormons are better behaved than Mormons. I have repeatedly stated that both sides are prone to this problem.

The issue is whether or not people who criticize DCP in a mean-spirited fashion are, as you claimed, engendering general hate against Mormons, and most likely will inspire some sort of acts of violence in the future.

If you really believed Mormons are at serious risk due to RFM, you'd do something other than complain about it here, to people who rarely, if ever, participate there. If you really believed people can be at risk due to inflammatory language of others on internet boards, then you would be concerned about ex-mormons, too - unless, of course, we're less than human somehow, and deserve it, (an idea Jesus would be very angry about, since he believed that each one of the lost was important and dear) or Mormons are incapable of acts of violence. (an idea history itself would debunk without any further comment)

You're on a mission, aren't you, and let me tell you, like Pahoran, I hold all of you in utter contenpt.


My only "mission" is to demonstrate how inane and, to use your own words, nutty your comments have been. You apparently are choosing to interpret my negative attention as some sort of indication of my feelings about Mormonism. It's not. My negative attention is due to the nutty (again, to use your own word) things you've been saying.

You engaged in obvious hyperbole that completely fails tests of logic, as this thread has demonstrated. If I say the exact same thing about future, potential violence against exmormons due to your inflammatory rhetoric towards me, you (rightly) call it nutty. That was my entire point. It is nutty, Ray. Your behavior certainly can indicate something about you, yourself, but it, in the context it takes place, does not indicate something about engendering wider-scaled hatred against ex-mormons, to the point where they will need an anti-defamation group and will suffer acts of violence simply for being ex-mormons. Yet this is exactly what you have claimed will happen in response to exmormon hyperbole.

Every time this point has been clearly demonstrated to you, you dodge it. You talk about something else, like my personal character. Or you've said vague things like everyone but me sees the difference. Or simply declaring you are leaving the cesspool (how many times is that now?)

You can't logically defend your point because it is illogical.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
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