Shout out to RenegadeofPhunk!!!

[_beastie]

Here's another try to demonstrate the difference between my being uncomfortable with YOU, and your insistence on making exmormons in general responsible for the bad behavior of some.

For me to engage in the same behavior you have engaged in, I would have to go to MAD and tell them that as long as they don't speak out when believers like you engage in vile and malicious behavior, as long as they don't protest their leaders propagating malicious falsehoods about apostates, then they will have BLOOD ON THEIR HANDS when some unstable person decides to become violent towards exmormons.

I have repeatedly tried to get you to see this point by asking you if YOU were going to accept blood on YOUR hands, but you have ignored it.

[_Jersey Girl]

I officially remove myself from this thread. It is FAR too tempting to me to sling insults at people and I've got other fish to fry.

Jersey Girl

[_Ray A]

I officially remove myself from this thread. It is FAR too tempting to me to sling insults at people and I've got other fish to fry.

Jersey Girl

Shark tastes good. Try it will chilli sauce.

[_Ray A]

I have no doubt you have no idea what I'm on about. And let me say that it is far more than you calling me a b**** that bothers me about your behavior. It is your inclination to go on these periodic rants,with varying targets, in combination with other statements about my "sexiness" and "winning your heart", etc etc.

That was a return taunt. The truth is I don't find you at all sexy, nor are you my "type". But you apparently posted that pic to stir some other males who flattered you? Maybe you were uncomfortable with this and took it down. Now you're trying to portray me as a stalker. I have better things to stalk than you.

What better rebuttal can you get than a believer admitting that Mormonism has ingrained bigotry against apostates, so ingrained it could never change, but we should just "wear it"? What better rebuttal than seeing a long list of mutual pejoratives and realizing there is no way to separate insults by group? And all wrapped up in the irony of "Porter Rockwell".

Mutual perjoratives? Your sense of judgement is well and truly skewed.

[_beastie]

Mutual pejoratives from page 3:

blowhard moral coward
linked to satan
evil
craven cur
insecure, feeble-minded
bad, wicked
barracuda
leech
barnacle
Devil will claim him for his own
Joke
bile
pungent fog makers
provocateurs of mass murder
abusive
dishonest and/or unhinged
scamsters
vain
erratic
wasted
textbook tool for Eichmann
stupour
pirahna
idiot and a hack
dark
demented
intellectually corrupt
intellectual charlatans
vulgar
lowballing trashtalker
sinful
adulterous
average scholars
sick
envious
greedy
sociopathic/borderline psychopathic
lazy
bound for hell
drunkards
madmen.
jerk
weak-minded
proud
lustful
bigots
slothful
indolent


These were taken from RFM posts Ray used as example of Lutherite speech that will incite future Nazi acts of violence, Ray's own comments, and statements made by church leaders over the pulpit or as cited in church educational materials. The ratio is roughly half and half.

But, silly me - why should exmormons object to being called sinful, lustful, proud, arrogant, drunkards, bigots, slothful, sick, envious, vain, weak-minded followers of Satan? I forgot it's our job to "Wear It".

[_Ray A]

These were taken from RFM posts Ray used as example of Lutherite speech that will incite future Nazi acts of violence, Ray's own comments, and statements made by church leaders over the pulpit or as cited in church educational materials. The ratio is roughly half and half.

But, silly me - why should exmormons object to being called sinful, lustful, proud, arrogant, drunkards, bigots, slothful, sick, envious, vain, weak-minded followers of Satan? I forgot it's our job to "Wear It".

I am an ex-Mormon, and I can confess to being sinful, proud, arrogant, sometimes drinking to excess, and I can be bigoted in my beliefs, yes, but many are. I am slothful (don't do enough housework, post too much on boards). I do envy some people. Few of us are not vain.

Obviously, you're angry at the Church leaders, and it shows. Your posts and threads are now at frenzy level.

[_beastie]

That was a return taunt. The truth is I don't find you at all sexy, nor are you my "type". But you apparently posted that pic to stir some other males who flattered you? Maybe you were uncomfortable with this and took it down. Now you're trying to portray me as a stalker. I have better things to stalk than you.

I have no idea what's wrong with you. You appear to be pulling a "wade" and now pretending that this was all some "demo". All it takes is rereading your comments on MAD to put that stunt to rest. These strange comments about my sexiness and references to my picture, which I posted because others were talking about posting their pictures, in the middle of your rants about blood on my hands, added up to a really troubling picture, and made me very glad I never shared any personal information with you.

Notice that I'm not now running over to MAD and trying to make them responsible for your bad behavior. How dare they allow your rants to go unchallenged! Why, they are standing by doing nothing! Some nut could be inspired by Ray's malicious talk and go on a killing rampage! Blood will be on their hands!

Yes, you will hear these as "taunts", when all I am doing is applying the same standard to you that you have applied to exmormons.

I am an ex-Mormon, and I can confess to being sinful, proud, arrogant, sometimes drinking to excess, and I can be bigoted in my beliefs, yes, but many are. I am slothful (don't do enough housework, post too much on boards). I do envy some people. Few of us are not vain.

Well, bully for you. Then I suppose you do not object to even more: madmen, dark, demented, adulterous, abusive, greedy, bound for hell, etc. etc.

And the lesson is: Since Ray is fine with being labeled with all these pejoratives, the rest of us should be too!

Of course, most of the rest of us didn't leave the church because we preferred the "pagan lifestyle", despite still believing in the church. Most of the rest of us left because we no longer believed the church to be true.

Obviously, you're angry at the Church leaders, and it shows. Your posts and threads are now at frenzy level.

Do you even read your own material?

Now, after kicking myself for responding to you yet again and wasting ten more minutes of my life, I'm turning in.

[_Ray A]

That was a return taunt. The truth is I don't find you at all sexy, nor are you my "type". But you apparently posted that pic to stir some other males who flattered you? Maybe you were uncomfortable with this and took it down. Now you're trying to portray me as a stalker. I have better things to stalk than you.

I have no idea what's wrong with you. You appear to be pulling a "wade" and now pretending that this was all some "demo".

I was angry, yes, I don't deny that. I was angry on RFM, and I was angry on Exmo-Social. And I am angry at the slander here. Now look at your own anger, or as you say, "maddening". The Church makes you mad.

All it takes is rereading your comments on MAD to put that stunt to rest. These strange comments about my sexiness and references to my picture, which I posted because others were talking about posting, in the middle of your rants about blood on my hands, added up to a really troubling picture, and made me very glad I never shared any personal information with you.

Let me repeat, I have no interest in your personal information. I know your real first name and I have never revealed that, and I never will. I don't go digging into personal emails to try to trap people in their words either.

Notice that I'm not now running over to MAD and trying to make them responsible for your bad behavior. How dare they allow your rants to go unchallenged! Why, they are standing by doing nothing! Some nut could be inspired by Ray's malicious talk and go on a killing rampage! Blood will be on their hands!

Now you're sounding like the real nut.

Yes, you will hear these as "taunts", when all I am doing is applying the same standard to you that you have applied to exmormons.

And you object to me applying the same standards to ex-Mormons that they apply to Mormons. Got that.

Now, after kicking myself for responding to you yet again and wasting ten more minutes of my life, I'm turning in.

Give it up. I'm a lost cause. Hopelessly deluded. I believe in a God who doesn't exist. Case closed.

[_beastie]

I was angry, yes, I don't deny that. I was angry on RFM, and I was angry on Exmo-Social. And I am angry at the slander here. Now look at your own anger, or as you say, "maddening". The Church makes you mad.

No, Ray, the church doesn't make me mad anymore. I'm not engaging in vitriolic speech about it, either. You consistently ignore the context of my statements, and lift them out of context to make it sound like I meant something other than what I meant.

I think it is very normal to go through a stage of anger after losing faith in the church. I've explained this ad nauseum. I went through that stage long ago.

Let me repeat, I have no interest in your personal information. I know your real first name and I have never revealed that, and I never will. I don't go digging into personal emails to try to trap people in their words either.

Then stop the creepy comments.

beastie wrote:
Notice that I'm not now running over to MAD and trying to make them responsible for your bad behavior. How dare they allow your rants to go unchallenged! Why, they are standing by doing nothing! Some nut could be inspired by Ray's malicious talk and go on a killing rampage! Blood will be on their hands!



Now you're sounding like the real nut.

Ya think? That was the entire point.. I was trying to sound like you, and you have, by your own words, sounded like a real nut ever since you've gotten on this latest kick of yours.

Let me remind you what started my "prosecution" - this comment that was so patently nutty I wanted to give you a chance to clarify and explain:

expressed an opinion many "moons" ago on the old FAIRboard, that these negative sentiments could materialise in actual physical violence. I still believe that. I think Dan has put this in very tactful and balanced language, but I would prefer to speak my mind in more forceful language. We cannot always separate expression from actual intent. If the quotes from the OP, which are symptomatic of much of RFM, are any indication, then I am seriously concerned. Tonight I watched two teenaged girls bash up an older man because of a stupid comment he made. When they were finished ten minutes later, he was a mass of blood. These girls were no more than sixteen or seventeen, and with some quick and dismissive wit they could have left the man looking like a fool, but the vindictiveness of the physical attack shocked me. They were only words uttered by a silly old drunk man at the train station, yet it nearly cost his life. Fortunately the police arrived and arrested them. I hope they spend at least 12 months in a juvenile detention centre.

If some dork speaks about "killing Mormon missionaries", I do not care a fig if anyone else sees this as merely words. I take this very seriously. And to all the little minds who think this thread has no substance - THINK AGAIN! And to all of you who quote Jesus, remember that out of the mouth come blasphemies, threats, and bile, which reflect the intentions of the heart. This is a verbal hatred that could one day turn to physical violence. And the more you speak and publish your BILE, the more the sick minds will be encouraged.

And let me have a word with those who encourage this, either by Pilate-like silence, or "free speech", you will have blood on your hands if anyone is physically injured. I abhor and detest the sick sentiments expressed against Dan Peterson, Juliann, or Mormons in general. You have a choice. Speak up, and stop the trashing, or clap your hands in glee.

The point Dan has been trying to make in this thread is that evil bears the face of innocence. Mass murderers can be ordinary "family" men and women who smell flowers and pat their dog, and buy candy for their children. It is the "mass movements" of hate which encourage them to act beyond civility, and beyond their "natural affections".

Call me a prophet of doom if you like, but I have wiped my hands of this hatred, and if you can't see the hatred expressed on RFM, and among many on MDB, then you need an eye test.

Why has Dan brought this to attention in this thread? Because it needs to be brought to attention, so that good and honest people can discern between good and evil. And if you can't, then I leave you to discuss this problem with your Maker someday.

And remember, all you anti-Mormons now stirring hatred and bile against the Church - you will pay an awful price. Keep building your websites of hate, spread the word of hate, and as you sow, you will reap.

http://mormondiscussions.com/discuss/vi ... 15&start=0

Instead of taking the opportunity to confess you were simply speaking hyperbole out of anger, you insisted that your point was valid, and that we were Lutherites who would inspire future Nazis to acts of violence.

beastie wrote:
Yes, you will hear these as "taunts", when all I am doing is applying the same standard to you that you have applied to exmormons.



And you object to me applying the same standards to ex-Mormons that they apply to Mormons. Got that.

Just like your new role model, Pahoran, you most certainly do not "got it". In fact, you have quite determinedly refused to get it despite my very explicit explanations.

I have not applied different standards, you have. I have repeatedly said that there is bad behavior on both sides, and I have stood up to the bad behavior on both sides. When I remind you of this fact you cannot deny, you call me "holier than thou". LOL!

You are not applying the same standards whatsoever. It's hard for me to believe that you are still able to fool yourself into believing you do. Mormons are allowed to use any pejorative language they want to about exmormons in your standard, and we must just "wear it". And you demonstrate how willing you are to "wear it". Ok, maybe you have a dark spirit, are demented, sick, a liar, an adulterer, etc etc... but most of us are not. You go ahead and wear it if it fits you so fine. But don't expect the rest of us to. And when exmormons say "enough is enough", or when they simply have problematic personalities (which were probably problematic as Mormons), you howl in outrage. Not only are they evil incarnate, but those of us who don't spend our lives policing their behavior are Luthers with blood on our hands.

How you imagine this is applying the same standard is simply beyond me.

Give it up. I'm a lost cause. Hopelessly deluded. I believe in a God who doesn't exist. Case closed.

Yes, you're doing a good job modeling your behavior after the likes of Pahoran. He is quite fond of sticking words in other people's mouths.

You're hopeless, Ray, not because you believe in a God I don't believe exists, but because you are seemingly incapable of recognizing your own hypocrisy in this specific matter. You accuse me of objecting to you applying the "same standard" when you have not done so for one second in any of these threads. "Wear It!", you tell us, regardless of what insulting, biased baloney the church leaders peddle in the name of Jesus Christ.

And no, I'm not currently mad, frenzied, as you claim, embittered against the leaders. The only reason I keep referring to their bad behavior is because I have been (vainly) trying to get you to understand the the vitriol and polemics exist on both sides of the aisle, so if you really, really, believe that the Bensons out there are spreading so much hatred in general society towards Mormons they will need to develop their own "anti-defamation league", you should be equally concerned about the hate the LDS leaders spread about exmormons. But you aren't. You encourage us to "wear it". This is what makes you utterly hopeless, and such a perfect exmormon pet for the believing MADdites.

[_Ray A]

You're hopeless, Ray, not because you believe in a God I don't believe exists, but because you are seemingly incapable of recognizing your own hypocrisy in this specific matter. You accuse me of objecting to you applying the "same standard" when you have not done so for one second in any of these threads. "Wear It!", you tell us, regardless of what insulting, biased baloney the church leaders peddle in the name of Jesus Christ.

And no, I'm not currently mad, frenzied, as you claim, embittered against the leaders. The only reason I keep referring to their bad behavior is because I have been (vainly) trying to get you to understand the the vitriol and polemics exist on both sides of the aisle, so if you really, really, believe that the Bensons out there are spreading so much hatred in general society towards Mormons they will need to develop their own "anti-defamation league", you should be equally concerned about the hate the LDS leaders spread about exmormons. But you aren't. You encourage us to "wear it". This is what makes you utterly hopeless, and such a perfect exmormon pet for the believing MADdites.

You're on a mission, aren't you, and let me tell you, like Pahoran, I hold all of you in utter contenpt.