What this is not

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Post Reply
_Jersey Girl
_Emeritus
Posts: 34407
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:16 am

What this is not

Post by _Jersey Girl »

It is not:

1. An invitation to track and comment on a MAD thread.
2. An invitation to mock MAD posters or MDB posters (regardless of affiliation)

What it is, in spite of my sloppy composition, is an appeal.

A word of explanation. I re-registered on MAD perhaps a week ago to attend to something I strongly disagreed with. (This thread is not an invitation to discuss the thing I disagreed with). Yes, I identified myself from the start. A thread was created, much like those here, regarding the PBS documentary which I finished watching last night. This is a response to Scott Gordon. (This is not an invitation to mock Scott Gordon).

It was meant as an appeal. If you cannot treat it as such, I'll respond as I see fit or not at all. I won't be giving a link or thread title. Let it sink or float to the top as you wish.

"Hello Scott,

I've made an attempt on this thread to engage in reflective thinking regarding the statements made by Tal Bachman both in the documentary and in his email reply that was posted here. Not knowing him personally and not having the gift of mind reading, I and others can only speculate about his intentions. I don't know that he had gave any forethought as you suggest in your comments. It's possible that given his artistic leanings that he is somewhat dramatic and flaky, for lack of better descriptors. Those are perhaps good qualities for an artist to have, thinking on highly emotional levels, however they are not good qualities for one to rely on for speaking for the ex-LDS community and like it or not, Tal has become a representative for that community.

My guess, and it's only a guess, is that if Tal had made similiar comments just prior to his going to his mission, some would have thought that as an indication of the spirit moving in him. People will interpret as they do, in certain situations that reinforce their own spirituality.

Having said that, I viewed the DVD that was distributed by the group of evangelical Christians and just last evening finished viewing the PBS documentary. I've been reading three message boards (MAD, MDB, RFM) and comparing the responses on each and am struck by the thought that Mormonism, perhaps due to the onset of Mitt Romney, and the outpouring of media attention directed toward Mormonism (both positive and negative) is going to result in the forcing of hands of people in the opposing communities.

Here, on this thread and others like it (thinking of Toscano) people are angry by the portrayal of Mormonism in a documentary that I, at least, felt was well balanced and graciously presented as well as respectfully produced and so much so that I, as a long time investigator/critic/observer, found myself crying through a large portion of it directly related to the struggles and conviction of the LDS pioneers. When I, having the role that I have chosen, read this type of thread about Tal Bachman's motives for referencing suicide bombers in relation to his religious zeal and loyalty, what I see are people verbally bombing him in return.

As an outsider, nothing could lend more credence to the type of religious zeal that Tal referred to in his unfortunate example of "suicide bomber". Violence is violence. Hatred is hatred. And hurt is hurt.

I think that there will come a time in the not so very near future that people on opposing sides are going to face the realization that there is need for open and sincere communication between themselves. Not talking between boards like this. Not calling names but calling on what they know is right and best to do."

Jersey Girl
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_Yoda

Post by _Yoda »

Hi Jersey Girl!

I have not read the thread on MAD, so my comments are simply based on your posting to Scott.

I think that you have made some excellent points. What I find is particularly impacting is that your view is that of a non-member.

You are not anti-Mormon, and you don't have a hidden agenda.

Being a musician myself, I love your comments about artists being "dramatic and flaky". LOL

My kids always accuse me of being this way, so it's probably true. ;)

I'm anxious to see how Scott responds.
_Runtu
_Emeritus
Posts: 16721
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:06 am

Post by _Runtu »

liz3564 wrote:Hi Jersey Girl!

I have not read the thread on MAD, so my comments are simply based on your posting to Scott.

I think that you have made some excellent points. What I find is particularly impacting is that your view is that of a non-member.

You are not anti-Mormon, and you don't have a hidden agenda.

Being a musician myself, I love your comments about artists being "dramatic and flaky". LOL

My kids always accuse me of being this way, so it's probably true. ;)

I'm anxious to see how Scott responds.


Tal and I had a long conversation about this subject about a year ago. I don't think we used the term "suicide bombing," but we both agreed that we would have been willing to do just about anything if the prophet had asked us to. Personally, I think I would have balked at killing, but then I probably would have at least prayed about it, and who knows if I would have felt some kind of spiritual confirmation?

My wife tells me that she would gladly give the prophet our teenaged daughters as wives because "the prophet wouldn't ask anything that wasn't right." I'm pretty sure that's the attitude I had and the one Tal is describing.

But I agree that it was an unfortunate choice of words from Tal. I know what he meant, but he probably could have said it better. I don't think he was going for shock value, as some have charged.
Runtu's Rincón

If you just talk, I find that your mouth comes out with stuff. -- Karl Pilkington
_harmony
_Emeritus
Posts: 18195
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:35 am

Post by _harmony »

Runtu wrote:My wife tells me that she would gladly give the prophet our teenaged daughters as wives because "the prophet wouldn't ask anything that wasn't right."


Ya know, that's just scary. As if the girl had nothing to say about it. As if the father had nothing to say about it. This is the same attitude that made it possible for Joseph to manipulate the members like he did. No man should be trusted this much. Trusting men this much results in things like the Branch Davidians and Heaven's Gate and Jim Jones.
_Runtu
_Emeritus
Posts: 16721
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:06 am

Post by _Runtu »

harmony wrote:
Runtu wrote:My wife tells me that she would gladly give the prophet our teenaged daughters as wives because "the prophet wouldn't ask anything that wasn't right."


Ya know, that's just scary. As if the girl had nothing to say about it. As if the father had nothing to say about it. This is the same attitude that made it possible for Joseph to manipulate the members like he did. No man should be trusted this much. Trusting men this much results in things like the Branch Davidians and Heaven's Gate and Jim Jones.


I know it's scary. And that's what I think Tal was getting at.
Runtu's Rincón

If you just talk, I find that your mouth comes out with stuff. -- Karl Pilkington
Post Reply