The Dude's Philosophy

[_beastie]

Have to render kudos where kudos are due, even if it makes me look like I'm fawning.

I thought this post of The Dude's on MAD's thread about angry exmormons was very insightful:

No, that's not it. They aren't embarrassed, they aren't trying to "convince" themselves that they did the right thing. Ex-Mormons just want to re-live the thrill of victory over a false and oppressive world view (in their opinion). Unlike others who doubt but stay in the church, the ex-mormons had the balls to say "the emperor has no clothes!" and let the chips fall where they may. It's stimulating to explore that break-out moment again and again, and it's fulfilling to help others do the same whenever possible. That's what motivates vocal ex-mormons.

It's the same as what motivates a new Mormon convert to share the gospel with his friends and family. Does it sound right to say the new Mormon is motivated to speak up by "self-loathing" or "embarrassment by the former non-LDS self" or "convincing themselves that they did the right thing" or "to prove to themselves that they were smart in joining?" Not really. It's nuts to psychoanalyze a vocal convert in this way. And the same goes for psychoanalyzing a vocal de-convert. They are motivated by the chance to re-live the "big moment" and help others do the same. It just feels good in an egotistical sort of way.

[_Runtu]

Have to render kudos where kudos are due, even if it makes me look like I'm fawning.

I thought this post of The Dude's on MAD's thread about angry exmormons was very insightful:

No, that's not it. They aren't embarrassed, they aren't trying to "convince" themselves that they did the right thing. Ex-Mormons just want to re-live the thrill of victory over a false and oppressive world view (in their opinion). Unlike others who doubt but stay in the church, the ex-mormons had the balls to say "the emperor has no clothes!" and let the chips fall where they may. It's stimulating to explore that break-out moment again and again, and it's fulfilling to help others do the same whenever possible. That's what motivates vocal ex-mormons.

It's the same as what motivates a new Mormon convert to share the gospel with his friends and family. Does it sound right to say the new Mormon is motivated to speak up by "self-loathing" or "embarrassment by the former non-LDS self" or "convincing themselves that they did the right thing" or "to prove to themselves that they were smart in joining?" Not really. It's nuts to psychoanalyze a vocal convert in this way. And the same goes for psychoanalyzing a vocal de-convert. They are motivated by the chance to re-live the "big moment" and help others do the same. It just feels good in an egotistical sort of way.

That is indeed good. I think that's a pretty good analysis of what's going on. It's not atrocity stories or shame at prior belief. I'm a big fan of The Dude.

[Tator]

That is indeed good. I think that's a pretty good analysis of what's going on. It's not atrocity stories or shame at prior belief. I'm a big fan of The Dude.

Aren't we all? Of course, remember The Dude was disposable in "larger" society (heh, just trying to keep your ego in check, The Dude).

Of course, there are other reasons that factor in, and motivations vary. Human nature and all that.

The times I have spent a lot of time on something, such as my Mesoamerica/Book of Mormon/LGT analysis, I did so because of natural interest in the subject (I could never spend that much time on something that didn't naturally interest me, which is why I never really got into the Book of Abraham topic), and because I felt a social obligation to share information with others who may be looking for information. But most of my interactions with exmormons and Mormons are not of that quality.

Sometimes I continue just out of inertia. You start these sort of conversations, and even if you lose interest in many topics, every now and then one pops up that you are interested in, or want to entertain yourself with, or whatever.

But, underlying all of that, there really is something to be said about The Dude's idea: that the thrill of reliving a pivotal, crucial, moment of "victory" feels good. (particularly when those moments tend to be few and far between in "real" life)

[_The Dude]

Have to render kudos where kudos are due, even if it makes me look like I'm fawning.

LOL. Or even if it gets me in trouble for being too popular here. ;)

[_beastie]

LOL. Or even if it gets me in trouble for being too popular here. ;)

Yeah, that's why I threw in the "disposable" line to help you out. :O

[_Runtu]

Have to render kudos where kudos are due, even if it makes me look like I'm fawning.

LOL. Or even if it gets me in trouble for being too popular here. ;)

Does that mean we can speculate on how soon you'll be banned? I'm still amazed that Mighty Curelom is still there.

[_KimberlyAnn]

Have to render kudos where kudos are due, even if it makes me look like I'm fawning.

I thought this post of The Dude's on MAD's thread about angry exmormons was very insightful:

No, that's not it. They aren't embarrassed, they aren't trying to "convince" themselves that they did the right thing. Ex-Mormons just want to re-live the thrill of victory over a false and oppressive world view (in their opinion). Unlike others who doubt but stay in the church, the ex-mormons had the balls to say "the emperor has no clothes!" and let the chips fall where they may. It's stimulating to explore that break-out moment again and again, and it's fulfilling to help others do the same whenever possible. That's what motivates vocal ex-mormons.

It's the same as what motivates a new Mormon convert to share the gospel with his friends and family. Does it sound right to say the new Mormon is motivated to speak up by "self-loathing" or "embarrassment by the former non-LDS self" or "convincing themselves that they did the right thing" or "to prove to themselves that they were smart in joining?" Not really. It's nuts to psychoanalyze a vocal convert in this way. And the same goes for psychoanalyzing a vocal de-convert. They are motivated by the chance to re-live the "big moment" and help others do the same. It just feels good in an egotistical sort of way.

That is a great assessment of what motivates exmormons and I'm not embarrassed at all to join Beastie in gushing over The Dude for his astute summary! Very good, The Dude.

KA *fawning*

[_Mary]

I liked his comments too, I don't know that it totally describes me though..

I'd say that I have an opinion, and feel that my opinion is as good as anyone elses on these matters.
I stayed quiet for at least the first 10 years after leaving, and I think I enjoy actually talking to active
Mormons about things that I dared not talk about when I was active. It's been like releasing 25 years of pent up
frustration and shelved theological and historical quandaries, problems, misunderstandings and contradictions.

[_The Dude]

I liked his comments too, I don't know that it totally describes me though..

I'd say that I have an opinion, and feel that my opinion is as good as anyone elses on these matters.
I stayed quiet for at least the first 10 years after leaving, and I think I enjoy actually talking to active
Mormons about things that I dared not talk about when I was active. It's been like releasing 25 years of pent up
frustration and shelved theological and historical quandaries, problems, misunderstandings and contradictions.

That's sort of what I did. I spent almost 10 years away from message boards and internet Mormonism, and now I'm motivated by interest and the social challenge. But for the first year or so, when I did surf the earliest exmo-sites, I was motivated by my still red-hot feelings of victory and new freedom. So in the context of Ray's thread about "angry" exmormons, I think the "philosophy" of my comment is accurate for most people -- as it was for me, at first.

[_William Schryver]

The Dude:

No, that's not it. They aren't embarrassed, they aren't trying to "convince" themselves that they did the right thing. Ex-Mormons just want to re-live the thrill of victory over a false and oppressive world view (in their opinion). Unlike others who doubt but stay in the church, the ex-mormons had the balls to say "the emperor has no clothes!" and let the chips fall where they may. It's stimulating to explore that break-out moment again and again, and it's fulfilling to help others do the same whenever possible. That's what motivates vocal ex-mormons.

It's the same as what motivates a new Mormon convert to share the gospel with his friends and family. Does it sound right to say the new Mormon is motivated to speak up by "self-loathing" or "embarrassment by the former non-LDS self" or "convincing themselves that they did the right thing" or "to prove to themselves that they were smart in joining?" Not really. It's nuts to psychoanalyze a vocal convert in this way. And the same goes for psychoanalyzing a vocal de-convert. They are motivated by the chance to re-live the "big moment" and help others do the same. It just feels good in an egotistical sort of way.

This is the primary reason I prefer The Dude over the limp-wristed types who, once they come to the conclusion that Mormonism is not what it claims to be, don't have the cojones to at least make a stand for what they believe (or don't believe, as the case may be.) I have absolutely zero respect for non-believers who go to church week after week because they lack the integrity to stand up for themselves in the face of family, or friends, or whatever it is that bullies them into continued participation in something they think is false.

That said, if I were to ever come to the conclusion that it is all a crock, I'm doubtful that I would find it "stimulating to explore that break-out moment again and again and ... fulfilling to help others do the same whenever possible ..." Somehow that seems vengeful and petty to me. I mean, let the fools (if that's how you view them) cling to whatever floats their boat or anchors their faith or gives them hope. I've always felt that, for most people, a false hope is far more preferable to no hope at all. Some folks just don't have the capacity to face the cruel unfeeling world without it.

Anyway, that one character flaw aside, I respect The Dude for not being afraid to wear his godless-heathen-bastardness on his sleeve. I'll speak in his behalf when they damn him to eternal torment, and I'll bring along a full cooler of Pilsner Urquels when I go to visit him in hell.