guys, it's breath-taking time

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_Jersey Girl
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Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:16 am

Post by _Jersey Girl »

The Nehor wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:If that's a prayer circle, I'm hoping Nehor is right in the middle. If that's a group hug, let the record show that I ain't huggin' Mr. Coffee.

;-)


Can't.......breathe.....in here.


Ah, sorry about that, Nehor! I was thinking in terms that your posts confuse and exasperate me sometimes...and that you could use some prayers of protection just incase I lost patience and went into rant mode!

Everybody stop holding hands!

Better now, Nehor?

Jersey Girl
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_The Nehor
_Emeritus
Posts: 11832
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:05 am

Post by _The Nehor »

Jersey Girl wrote:Ah, sorry about that, Nehor! I was thinking in terms that your posts confuse and exasperate me sometimes...and that you could use some prayers of protection just incase I lost patience and went into rant mode!

Everybody stop holding hands!

Better now, Nehor?

Jersey Girl


I guess I should start praying you don't go into rant-mode then? And build a bomb shelter? ;)
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
_Mercury
_Emeritus
Posts: 5545
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:14 pm

Post by _Mercury »

The Nehor wrote:
I guess I should start praying you don't go into rant-mode then? And build a bomb shelter? ;)


Careful...she might declare "WAR" on you.
And crawling on the planet's face
Some insects called the human race
Lost in time
And lost in space...and meaning
_The Nehor
_Emeritus
Posts: 11832
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:05 am

Post by _The Nehor »

Mercury wrote:
The Nehor wrote:
I guess I should start praying you don't go into rant-mode then? And build a bomb shelter? ;)


Careful...she might declare "WAR" on you.


I'll get to work expanding the Maginot Line to cover Belgium as well then.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
_ajax18
_Emeritus
Posts: 6914
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 2:56 am

Post by _ajax18 »

Perhaps you'd care to explain why you get so upset at the reality---or prospect---of being called a "racist"? If you suffer so horribly from "reverse racism," then what's the big deal? Why not throw up your arms in one big, happy, right-wing celebration of the glories of widespread, equally distributed racism?


Well maybe I should.

Why do you think this? For example, I can remember when Dusty Baker, who was then the skipper for, I believe, the Chicago Cubs, made a remark about how dark skinned people do better in hot weather---a remark he was sharply chastised for. Could it be that you only seem to notice when white people are redressed for their racism, and conveniently manage to overlook when it happens in the reverse? Or perhaps you object to what seems to be a greater occurrence of racism among whites?


Yeah and the sad thing is that Dusty was exactly right about what he said. We're so egotistical as people that we can't face the truth. How much coverage do Al Sharpton's and Jesse Jackson's statements get in the New York Times, not the mild ones, I mean the really racially divisive ones that aren't even true to start with. They seem to have taken it upon themselves to filter it all out for them.

Do you feel that racism towards Blacks is or ought to be on equal footing---morally and ethically speaking---as racism towards members of the white majority?


Yes, because I think we need to stop trying to get vengeance on each other for the past and put it behind us. Let God sort it out in the next life. The quicker we stop talking about it and take on a truly color blind policy, the more likely it is to go away. If you think you're going to brow beat me into conceding that I owe minorities something because I'm a white man than we'll always be at war.

It's very biological. That doesn't make it right, but it is something we're born with. I respect you're history and wordsmith abilities. Respect my understanding of biochemistry. Preserving your own genes is the strongest desire we have. This includes insuring the well being of those who share more genes with you than others. It can start at extreme levels such as immediate family and still be very visible in the pscyhology of people within the same tribe or nationality.

Ajax---what are you talking about? What "side of the story"? That they did not have to endure racism? What are you talking about? What "unwanted barrage of leftist propaganda"? Are you sure that you haven't bought into a right-wing conspiracy story about how non-whites are going to "take over the country"?


A lot of black leaders and some cooky white people I've heard on the news claim there is no such thing. Do you agree with them or not? You didn't answer my question.

Truthfully I don't mind so much when blacks, latinos etc. favor their own kind. I sort of respect the brotherhood and tribal loyalty. That's who they are and I don't think they even want to change that. I don't really blame them. I just think I should be allowed to do the same if that's what they're going to do. It's just a shame that I belong to a race that doesn't seem to value these things. So yes I would love to have someone watch my back the way minorities do for each other. To a lesser extent, I've found that in Mormonism.
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
_ajax18
_Emeritus
Posts: 6914
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 2:56 am

Post by _ajax18 »

Ok Scratch, you asked for documentation. Now go ahead and tell me this stuff didn't happen. It seems to correlate with my experiences as a pizza driver when a fellow worker got the piss beat out of him by three black guys on delivery. It amazed me that while he had $200 on him, all they took was the pizza. He was out of work for a month and had some permanent scarring. He was unconscious for some time after the attack. Guess what happened to these three black men for what they did? Basically nothing of course, community service. Luckily I've been blessed with large stature and haven't been personally robbed yet. I guess they figure it's not worth the backlash I could offer if they were to prey on me. They'd probably have to shoot me dead and that's not always as easy to get away with, but that too does happen. I've seen them gang up on smaller friends like a pack of wild dogs. Thank the Lord for Tasers and bully clubs.

You asked for an example. Here it is. Now go ahead and tell me this stuff never happened.

Kayla Rolland,
six-year old
White victim of integration.

Dedrick Owens, snarled, “I hate
you,” before
shooting Kayla.

The murder of six-year-old Kayla Rolland, a White little girl, by a Black student, Dedrick Owens, highlights the damage that forced racial integration has done to European Americans. Sheriff Robert Pickell said Owens’ father told him that Dedrick fought with the other children because “he hated them.” Kayla Rolland’s violent death is just one example of thousands of White children who have suffered from criminal violence at the hands of minorities in public schools across America. It cries out for an honest discussion of racial integration’s incalculable damage to European Americans.

Six-year old, Jake Robel, killed by black carjacker.

The news media have made concerted efforts to hide the interracial aspect of the slaying of Kayla Rolland. None of the national news agencies reported that the victim was White and the perpetrator was Black. Contrast that with the media coverage of the acquittal of four police officers in New York. Even though there was no evidence of racial animus and although the jury

Ronald Taylor,
White hater.

included four Blacks, many headlines read, “Four White Officers Acquitted in Death of Black Immigrant.” Compare that headline with the coverage of the dragging death of a White, six-year-old little boy, Jake Robel, by a Black carjacker in Kansas City. The headlines in the Robel murder did not read, “Black carjacker drags White Child to His Death.” The media carefully avoided any mention of the fact that the killer was Black and the victim was White. The double standard finds ample illustration in the news coverage of a recent murderous rampage in Wilkinsburg, PA. The Black killer said that he would only shoot White people and called his victims “White racist pigs.” Many articles one the did not even identify the race of the shooter or include his anti-White statements as he shot 5 White people. If it would have been a White killer of Blacks, the headlines would certainly have read something like, “White Racist Murders Three Blacks — Wounds Two.”
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
_harmony
_Emeritus
Posts: 18195
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:35 am

Post by _harmony »

Yes, because I think we need to stop trying to get vengeance on each other for the past and put it behind us.


This can't happen, won't happen, because the past effects what happens today. Generations ago, our forefathers set out to annihilate an entire people and take the land they lived on. We succeeded in getting the land, and we almost succeeded in the genocide. In the less distant past, we forced those survivors onto little pieces of land no one else wanted at gunpoint. Today, those people are finally recovering from those past horrors, but what is the distant past to us is yesterday to them, because of what and who they lost because of us.

You can be part of the problem, or you can be part of the solution. You can't change the past, but you can change your attitude about its importance. We don't all just start anew, separate and isolated from the past. Each life is built on the past, on deeds done in the past, alliances and enemies made in the past. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
_Mister Scratch
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Posts: 5604
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:13 pm

Post by _Mister Scratch »

ajax18 wrote:How much coverage do Al Sharpton's and Jesse Jackson's statements get in the New York Times, not the mild ones, I mean the really racially divisive ones that aren't even true to start with.


Such as what? What "really racially divisive" statements from Sharpton and Jackson are you referring to? (Especially if, as you claim, they do not receive wide media coverage?)

Do you feel that racism towards Blacks is or ought to be on equal footing---morally and ethically speaking---as racism towards members of the white majority?


Yes, because I think we need to stop trying to get vengeance on each other for the past and put it behind us.


That doesn't really answer my question.... It glosses over all sorts of complexities and contexts to the extent that the statement is, in effect, a red herring. On the other hand, I see how your statement could be read as a tacit admission on your part that, yes, in fact, Blacks in the U.S. have had to endure much, much more suffering and racism, and that it is sort of silly for white Americans to cry foul.

Let God sort it out in the next life. The quicker we stop talking about it and take on a truly color blind policy, the more likely it is to go away.


I don't follow your logic here.... I.e., it's as if you're saying, "If we all agree to pretend there's no problem, then there won't be any problem!" Seems a pretty gross oversimplification, imho.

If you think you're going to brow beat me into conceding that I owe minorities something because I'm a white man than we'll always be at war.


I don't think anyone said anything about whites "owing" something to minorities.... I think the discussion at hand has to do with what "racism" means...

It's very biological. That doesn't make it right, but it is something we're born with. I respect you're history and wordsmith abilities. Respect my understanding of biochemistry. Preserving your own genes is the strongest desire we have. This includes insuring the well being of those who share more genes with you than others.


Wow, Ajax, this is getting pretty far out there.... Now you are trying to apply Social Darwinism in order to justify racist thought and behavior? I.e., you are claiming that feelings of racial superiority---or solidarity?---are biological???

Ajax---what are you talking about? What "side of the story"? That they did not have to endure racism? What are you talking about? What "unwanted barrage of leftist propaganda"? Are you sure that you haven't bought into a right-wing conspiracy story about how non-whites are going to "take over the country"?


A lot of black leaders and some cooky white people I've heard on the news claim there is no such thing.


"No such thing as what"? A right-wing conspiracy? Racism? What?

Do you agree with them or not? You didn't answer my question.


I don't know, my friend. I don't understand what you're referring to.

Truthfully I don't mind so much when blacks, latinos etc. favor their own kind. I sort of respect the brotherhood and tribal loyalty. That's who they are and I don't think they even want to change that. I don't really blame them. I just think I should be allowed to do the same if that's what they're going to do.


I don't think anyone would object to that.

It's just a shame that I belong to a race that doesn't seem to value these things. So yes I would love to have someone watch my back the way minorities do for each other. To a lesser extent, I've found that in Mormonism.


Well, being a member of a minority group often does result in these sort of "tribalistic" solidarities. Part of the reason for this is that minorities often have to endure various kinds of suffering at the hands of the majority, hegemonic group---suffering such as racism.

Ok Scratch, you asked for documentation. Now go ahead and tell me this stuff didn't happen. It seems to correlate with my experiences as a pizza driver when a fellow worker got the piss beat out of him by three black guys on delivery. It amazed me that while he had $200 on him, all they took was the pizza. He was out of work for a month and had some permanent scarring. He was unconscious for some time after the attack. Guess what happened to these three black men for what they did? Basically nothing of course, community service.


Not sure what your point is. Would you care to elaborate? I.e., do you believe that the men were given a lighter sentence on account of their race? Or are you saying that you believed they acted violently due to their race? In either case, what is the basis for your belief in either of these premises (provided, of course, that you believe either of these premises is true...)

Luckily I've been blessed with large stature and haven't been personally robbed yet. I guess they figure it's not worth the backlash I could offer if they were to prey on me. They'd probably have to shoot me dead and that's not always as easy to get away with, but that too does happen. I've seen them gang up on smaller friends like a pack of wild dogs.


I have seen white people do this too. In fact, I have seen white people doing this under the aegis of institutional authority... Again, what 's your point?

You asked for an example. Here it is. Now go ahead and tell me this stuff never happened.

Kayla Rolland,
six-year old
White victim of integration.

Dedrick Owens, snarled, “I hate
you,” before
shooting Kayla.

The murder of six-year-old Kayla Rolland, a White little girl, by a Black student, Dedrick Owens, highlights the damage that forced racial integration has done to European Americans. Sheriff Robert Pickell said Owens’ father told him that Dedrick fought with the other children because “he hated them.” Kayla Rolland’s violent death is just one example of thousands of White children who have suffered from criminal violence at the hands of minorities in public schools across America. It cries out for an honest discussion of racial integration’s incalculable damage to European Americans.

Six-year old, Jake Robel, killed by black carjacker.

The news media have made concerted efforts to hide the interracial aspect of the slaying of Kayla Rolland. None of the national news agencies reported that the victim was White and the perpetrator was Black. Contrast that with the media coverage of the acquittal of four police officers in New York. Even though there was no evidence of racial animus and although the jury

Ronald Taylor,
White hater.

included four Blacks, many headlines read, “Four White Officers Acquitted in Death of Black Immigrant.” Compare that headline with the coverage of the dragging death of a White, six-year-old little boy, Jake Robel, by a Black carjacker in Kansas City. The headlines in the Robel murder did not read, “Black carjacker drags White Child to His Death.” The media carefully avoided any mention of the fact that the killer was Black and the victim was White. The double standard finds ample illustration in the news coverage of a recent murderous rampage in Wilkinsburg, PA. The Black killer said that he would only shoot White people and called his victims “White racist pigs.” Many articles one the did not even identify the race of the shooter or include his anti-White statements as he shot 5 White people. If it would have been a White killer of Blacks, the headlines would certainly have read something like, “White Racist Murders Three Blacks — Wounds Two.”


Ajax---you're killing me here, man. First: sources? I'd like to see where you're getting this stuff. Second, in the case of the Kayla Rolland issue---why on earth do you (or your source) think that this is somehow attributable to "forced integration"? This is wack, far-out-there white supremist stuff, Ajax. You will want to avoid that kind of crap like it's the plague.
_ajax18
_Emeritus
Posts: 6914
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 2:56 am

Post by _ajax18 »

That doesn't really answer my question.... It glosses over all sorts of complexities and contexts to the extent that the statement is, in effect, a red herring. On the other hand, I see how your statement could be read as a tacit admission on your part that, yes, in fact, Blacks in the U.S. have had to endure much, much more suffering and racism, and that it is sort of silly for white Americans to cry foul.


Blacks have had to endure some very terrible things throughout time and yes a lot of racism. Yet that doesn't mean that once they get in power they can't be just as bad as their predecessors. There's plenty of foul committed by blacks in being reverse racist every day to cry about. Based on the evidence I'd tend to believe that people are born racist. I think it's only natural, so while I mentioned blacks, I think it often applies to other people as well.

Wow, Ajax, this is getting pretty far out there.... Now you are trying to apply Social Darwinism in order to justify racist thought and behavior? I.e., you are claiming that feelings of racial superiority---or solidarity?---are biological???


I personally don't think whites are superior at all. On the contrary I see clear evidence that blacks are superior. Their long limbs allow them to run faster and jump higher. They're very gifted musically. I'd think biology the way I'm stating it is one of racial solidarity above anything though I do admit that people tend to see themselves at the top of the evolutionary chain.

"No such thing as what"? A right-wing conspiracy? Racism? What?


Reverse racism. Tell me does it happen or is there no such thing.

Truthfully I don't mind so much when blacks, latinos etc. favor their own kind. I sort of respect the brotherhood and tribal loyalty. That's who they are and I don't think they even want to change that. I don't really blame them. I just think I should be allowed to do the same if that's what they're going to do.


I don't think anyone would object to that.


Wow I think we've finally come to an agreement on something.

Ok Scratch, you asked for documentation. Now go ahead and tell me this stuff didn't happen. It seems to correlate with my experiences as a pizza driver when a fellow worker got the piss beat out of him by three black guys on delivery. It amazed me that while he had $200 on him, all they took was the pizza. He was out of work for a month and had some permanent scarring. He was unconscious for some time after the attack. Guess what happened to these three black men for what they did? Basically nothing of course, community service.


Not sure what your point is. Would you care to elaborate? I.e., do you believe that the men were given a lighter sentence on account of their race? Or are you saying that you believed they acted violently due to their race? In either case, what is the basis for your belief in either of these premises (provided, of course, that you believe either of these premises is true...)


They got away with it due to their race and other garbage being preached in the legal system like therapeutic jurisprudence.

I have seen white people do this too. In fact, I have seen white people doing this under the aegis of institutional authority... Again, what 's your point?


Ok, so they do the same thing. Tell me if I'm reading you wrong but it seems like you would say that even though it was the same action, when white people do it, it is much worse than when black people do it. An action is an action and no man has a right to inflict pain on someone he doesn't know because of what a thrird party did to him.

I'm not real sure about the racial integration stuff and should have cut that out, but it did seem like a clear example of the double standard that exists on racism in the news media. Sources aside, I believe this stuff really happened. If you choose to believe otherwise I respect that. Yet let's say I could provide you adequate proof, would you agree that this would be an example of biased journalism? If you still wouldn't agree than I suppose there is no point in revealing my source anyway.
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
_Gazelam
_Emeritus
Posts: 5659
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:06 am

Post by _Gazelam »

Jersey Girl wrote:If that's a prayer circle, I'm hoping Nehor is right in the middle. If that's a group hug, let the record show that I ain't huggin' Mr. Coffee.

;-)


Seeing as how Coffee is from Texas you'd best be careful while in the group hug. Texans are known to be on the lookout for "Tush" and you may get goosed.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
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