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This quote came up in a recent discussion elsewhere:

Joseph Smith (May 26, 1844)

"Come on, ye persecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! For I will come out on the top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet."

For the sake of remaining on topic, I'd like to ignore the underlying issue of polygamy contained in the full speech.

What does the Prophet mean by his references to Paul, John, Peter and Jesus?

Jersey Girl

Jersey Girl wrote:This quote came up in a recent discussion elsewhere:

Joseph Smith (May 26, 1844)

"Come on, ye persecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! For I will come out on the top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet."

For the sake of remaining on topic, I'd like to ignore the underlying issue of polygamy contained in the full speech.

What does the Prophet mean by his references to Paul, John, Peter and Jesus?

Jersey Girl

It's quite simple. Since the apostasy is a central tenet of Mormonism, obviously the church started by Jesus, Peter, John, and Paul collapsed. He, on the other hand, was the only man great enough to "keep a whole church together since the days of Adam."

Not one of his more laudable statements.

What about this?

The followers of Jesus ran away from Him

And what apostasy?

Jersey Girl

Jersey Girl wrote:What about this?

The followers of Jesus ran away from Him

I think he's talking about Peter's denial of Christ.

And what apostasy?

The Great one, of course.

It's certainly not a true statement, considering the many spin-offs of the LDS church.

Runtu

I think he's talking about Peter's denial of Christ.

Did no one deny Joseph?

And what great apostasy?

Jersey Girl

twinkie wrote:It's certainly not a true statement, considering the many spin-offs of the LDS church.

Not only that but one can successfully conclude that post Joseph Smith, the LDS church was not the same when Joseph was alive.

twinkie wrote:It's certainly not a true statement, considering the many spin-offs of the LDS church.

I didn't think so either, twinkie. If Joseph kept a whole church together, how does one explain this:

# Latter Day Saints or Mormons

* Aaronic Order
* Apostolic United Brethren
* Church of Christ (Temple Lot)
* Church of Jesus Christ (Bickertonite)
* Church of Jesus Christ (Cutlerite)
* The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
* Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Strangite)
* Church of Christ with the Elijah Message
* Community of Christ
* Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
* Pentecostal Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
* Restoration Church of Jesus Christ
* Restoration Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
* Restored Church of Jesus Christ
* Sons Aumen Israel
* True and Living Church of Jesus Christ of Saints of the Last Days

From Wiki, of course.

Jersey Girl

Jersey Girl wrote:

twinkie wrote:It's certainly not a true statement, considering the many spin-offs of the LDS church.

I didn't think so either, twinkie. If Joseph kept a whole church together, how does one explain this:

# Latter Day Saints or Mormons

* Aaronic Order
* Apostolic United Brethren
* Church of Christ (Temple Lot)
* Church of Jesus Christ (Bickertonite)
* Church of Jesus Christ (Cutlerite)
* The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
* Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Strangite)
* Church of Christ with the Elijah Message
* Community of Christ
* Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
* Pentecostal Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
* Restoration Church of Jesus Christ
* Restoration Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
* Restored Church of Jesus Christ
* Sons Aumen Israel
* True and Living Church of Jesus Christ of Saints of the Last Days

From Wiki, of course.

Jersey Girl

Silly woman. Just because a church splinters, it doesn't mean it hasn't held together.

Runtu wrote:

Jersey Girl wrote:

twinkie wrote:It's certainly not a true statement, considering the many spin-offs of the LDS church.

I didn't think so either, twinkie. If Joseph kept a whole church together, how does one explain this:

# Latter Day Saints or Mormons

* Aaronic Order
* Apostolic United Brethren
* Church of Christ (Temple Lot)
* Church of Jesus Christ (Bickertonite)
* Church of Jesus Christ (Cutlerite)
* The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
* Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Strangite)
* Church of Christ with the Elijah Message
* Community of Christ
* Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
* Pentecostal Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
* Restoration Church of Jesus Christ
* Restoration Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
* Restored Church of Jesus Christ
* Sons Aumen Israel
* True and Living Church of Jesus Christ of Saints of the Last Days

From Wiki, of course.

Jersey Girl

Silly woman. Just because a church splinters, it doesn't mean it hasn't held together.

Methinks one cannot see the apostasy for the trees. Er, uh, splinters.

Jersey Girl