DiscussMormonism.com

Gee, I take a break from all this only to return and see the same old nonsense.

http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index. ... opic=24761

First, the original poster, "Log", apparently doesn't have a complete grasp of LGT, as he proclaims that evidence of Incan area metallurgy provides some sort of evidence for the Book of Mormon. (it's been known for a long time that the Incan area developed metallurgy long before the Mesoamericans... and yes, there is EVIDENCE of metallurgy there, that is how we know that in the first place... the humid climate didn't magically erase it all)

Those believers who know a tad bit more about LGT heartily proclaim this is more evidence that flies in the face of the strawman "all the discovery has been done", since they know good and well it is no evidence for the Book of Mormon!!! As has been pointed out ad nauseum, no critic that I know of has ever made any such claim.

I will, once again, state that there is enough known to be confident in asserting there is zero chance the Book of Mormon is a historical document from ancient Mesoamerica.

I hope that someone - clearly not Juliann - recognizes the difference between that statement and saying "all the discovery has been done!!"

For an easier to grasp analogy, no one claims that "all the discovery" has been "done" about the Egyptian culture, but there is certainly enough evidence to assert that the claim some make that aliens helped build the pyramids in ancient Egypt has zero chance of being correct.


And as if I needed more evidence of the obvious, this post of Juliann's demonstrate she has yet to grasp the criticisms of exmormons such as myself:

The civilization dates got moved back into the Book of Mormon timeline. One of the biggest yuk yuks used to be that there were no civilizations to match the Book of Mormon. The silly person who read eight books and appointed herself a MesoAmerican expert now argues with Brant over which cities the Book of Mormon could be referring to. Very funny.

Juliann did not understand that the argument over whether or not "civilizations" (by which she must mean groups at a more complex level than tribe) existed during the right time frame had to do with the Olmec period, and the conflict between Sorenson's Olmec timeline (he insists it had to be 3000 BC due to the "towers" referenced) and Brant's timeline (he insists upon a much later date, - 1500 BC If I recall correctly.)

The civilization dates didn't get moved back to the Book of Mormon timelines (and, by the way, there is still no evidence of the empire described in the Book of Mormon in those time frames) - what got "moved" was Brant's time frame for the ancient Olmecs.

by the way, I've read over thirty books on the subject. No, not enough to be an expert, but it doest give me enough background knowledge to recognize BS when I hear it.

Metallurgy Problems for the Book of Mormon:

http://zarahemlacitylimits.com/wiki/ind ... Metallurgy

You can find Sorenson's trickery as well as his and Brant's sleight of hand with "linguistic" evidence there, as well as a detailed explanation of the lack of evidence supporting metallurgy in the correct period and place to support the Book of Mormon claims.

Best comment so far:

I can't speak for the others. But for myself, Beastie hasn't used enough logic to convince me to try a different brand of ice cream.

author: Charity

beastie wrote:Best comment so far:

I can't speak for the others. But for myself, Beastie hasn't used enough logic to convince me to try a different brand of ice cream.

author: Charity

Typical of charity. What else is new?

So, just out of curiosity, what brand of ice cream do you recommend, beastie?

Its obvious beastie is trying to tempt Charity to switch from Vanilla to....Chocolate. MMMmmm, dark and loathsome.....

Blixa wrote:Its obvious beastie is trying to tempt Charity to switch from Vanilla to....Chocolate. MMMmmm, dark and loathsome.....

Heh. I gave up vanilla a long time ago. ;)

Wow....

First off, I seriously doubt either Charity or Juliann has ever read the articles posted on Zarahemla City Limits.

Secondly, I would like some documentation showing Beastie has appointed herself the Mesoamerican "expert." The fact that she is well read and able to catch scholars when they are either wrong or disengenuous is threatening to those less knowledgeable hence the lashing out.

Finally, as has been repeated over and over and over and over...

No one is saying there will never ever be more discoveries in Mesoamerica. I'm pretty sure virtually every single poster will admit that there will in fact be more discoveries forthcoming.

The issue is, will there be discoveries that support the Book of Mormon. I think it highly doubtful.

I find it humorous that there is never serious discussion about this topic ... only the mean-spirited nastiness toward Beatie.

Nothing new. :-(

~dancer~

Well, folks, the sad news is I don't like ice cream in general.

Now, if we're talking chocolate in general... I am a strong advocate of DARK chocolate. Can't stand the milk chocolate stuff. Not worth eating.

It is pathetic how the same old strawmen continually get recycled. It doesn't matter how many times the strawman has been revealed as such, the same people will trot it out once more. It reminds me of that horrific Chapman article ("proofs" of horses in ancient America, using such stellar sources as the Ica stones, known forgeries). No matter how many times it is debunked, someone - often the same person - will trot it out once again. It's proof positive that True Believers don't really register any of this.

I mean, really. You can criticize me for many things, but I backed up all my assertions with thorough documentation. This is the best that folks like Juliann and Charity can do. I'm trying to remember the name of the last thread I participated on over there.... we discussed how archaeologists actually DO rely on a archaeological evidence to determine the arrival of an immigrant group.... boy, I have to find that thread. It's an archetypal thread typifying discussions with those two.

Here's the thread. It's a classic.

http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index. ... opic=21404

This is getting rich.

Juliann's latest claim about what the "silly people" do:

So they have to move from no metallurgy/smelting/whatever to no whatever in MesoAmerica during the Book of Mormon timeline.

Of course, I can't recall a single critic - whoops, I mean "silly person" - ever claim that there was no metallurgy/smelting/whatever in Mesoamerica.

This is proof positive that Juliann doesn't really read what critics write - she reads what she has decided, in their minds, the critics are saying.

Runtu, you're over there talking to her about this. Challenge her to produce evidence of the "silly people" saying what she has just attributed to them.