DiscussMormonism.com

For those of you that make up the board, what have you found that brings peace to the troubled soul?

MG: here is how I see it. Anything of worth over the long haul is going to take work. Literal and/or figurative sweat and tears. That which is of greater worth will typically be preceded by more opportunities to muddle through a wider range of experiences/situations which will involve sweat and tears, again literally or figuratively. Same with happiness. Happiness can be found along a spectrum. That happiness which is eternal/secure requires a greater degree of nurturing, work, sweat, and a few tears along the way.

Sacrifice is part of the mix too.

Graduating beyond the primary/seminary version of Mormonism, and yet remaining active, provides opportunities to experience hardships, learnings, progressions, sweat and tears, happinesses, insights, etc. that can't be found/tapped without going through it. Those that leave the church behind, physically and/or mentally-spiritually without moving beyond the primary/seminary days mentality/paradigm are bound for some frustrations, disappointments, and possible disillusionment as they come to find that there is more to assimilate (new Mormon history, science and religion, church institutional issues, revelatory conundrums...and on and on) than they ever thought in their wildest dreams that they would have to. To find that truth is not wrapped up in one little tidy package (LDS'ism TM) with a bow on top (In other words's that the world is a much bigger place than just Mormonism) can be somewhat disconcerting to those that may have believed this to be the case.

For me, peace is knowing that I don't have to have all the answers...that in fact I can have more questions than answers, and still remain an active member of the church. Peace, knowing that when all is said and done it is not unreasonable to believe in God. That it is not unreasonable that God has a plan/purpose for all of his creations. That it is not unreasonable to think that we are children of a loving Father. That it is not unreasonable to think that the LDS church/gospel of Jesus Christ plays an integral and important part in God's plan for the eternal welfare/happiness of at least a portion of his children, if not all. That it is not unreasonable to consider the fact that life gets messy in and out of the church because of the agency/nature of man and that this fact needs to be factored into everything that we experience in and out of the church. That it is not unreasonable to consider the possibility of life after life, and that this life is in some way a preparation...at least for some...for that future existence. That it is not unreasonable to excercise faith in that which is not seen but in which to some degree there are some indicators/evidences that this faith may not be misplaced.

The PP's, Scratch's, Bond's, Shades of this board have issues because they have not been able to move beyond a primary/seminary outlook towards the world and the church. They will say they have, but I honestly don't believe this to be the case. They are black/white thinkers...if you can call it thinking. They grew up literally thinking that all the thinking that ever had to be thunk had been done by someone other than themselves. They are very simplistic and naïve in their outlook towards what and who God is and how he may or may not operate in the universe. If he doesn't conform to their image, then he doesn't exist. They are ready and happy to jump on the secular bandwagon without the least provocation. They will say otherwise and call those such as myself a fool for even alluding to the possibility that this may be the case, but nonetheless, it is not unreasonable to come to the conclusion that they are the ones that have been duped and deluded into thinking "inside the box" of skepticism and doubt, to the exclusion of other possibilities.

To find out that Mormonism was not simply what they larned in primary/seminary and reading the New Era or Ensign threw them for a loop from which they never were able to extricate themselves and recover. Thus, we find them and others like them supposedly "recovering" over at the RFM board or here.

I go back to my first two paragraphs. I think it is not unreasonable to consider that what I've said there makes sense and may well even be true. If you are truly looking for peace rather than being forced to adhere only to the mushy, new age, rather simplistic formula that Bond put forward in his post (even if he was on acid...he he he), you may want to consider the possibility that truth is to be found within the LDS church.

mentalgymnast wrote:Was I that unclear in what I was attempting to say? by the way, I spelled learned...larned...intentionally. Maybe this threw him/her off, thinking I was a hick from Hicksville. <g>

mentalgymnast wrote:He/she... he/she...She/he...him/her...she/he..

Any thoughts?

mentalgymnast wrote:In the celestial realms of this forum a poster who goes by the name "Inconceivable" posed the following question:

For those of you that make up the board, what have you found that brings peace to the troubled soul?

He/she was asking this question due to the troubles/conflicts perceived as he/she has tried to work himself/herself through the maze of doubt/skepticism in regards to things Mormon.

I responded in this manner:

MG: here is how I see it. Anything of worth over the long haul is going to take work. Literal and/or figurative sweat and tears. That which is of greater worth will typically be preceded by more opportunities to muddle through a wider range of experiences/situations which will involve sweat and tears, again literally or figuratively. Same with happiness. Happiness can be found along a spectrum. That happiness which is eternal/secure requires a greater degree of nurturing, work, sweat, and a few tears along the way.

Sacrifice is part of the mix too.

Graduating beyond the primary/seminary version of Mormonism, and yet remaining active, provides opportunities to experience hardships, learnings, progressions, sweat and tears, happinesses, insights, etc. that can't be found/tapped without going through it. Those that leave the church behind, physically and/or mentally-spiritually without moving beyond the primary/seminary days mentality/paradigm are bound for some frustrations, disappointments, and possible disillusionment as they come to find that there is more to assimilate (new Mormon history, science and religion, church institutional issues, revelatory conundrums...and on and on) than they ever thought in their wildest dreams that they would have to. To find that truth is not wrapped up in one little tidy package (LDS'ism TM) with a bow on top (In other words's that the world is a much bigger place than just Mormonism) can be somewhat disconcerting to those that may have believed this to be the case.

For me, peace is knowing that I don't have to have all the answers...that in fact I can have more questions than answers, and still remain an active member of the church. Peace, knowing that when all is said and done it is not unreasonable to believe in God. That it is not unreasonable that God has a plan/purpose for all of his creations. That it is not unreasonable to think that we are children of a loving Father. That it is not unreasonable to think that the LDS church/gospel of Jesus Christ plays an integral and important part in God's plan for the eternal welfare/happiness of at least a portion of his children, if not all. That it is not unreasonable to consider the fact that life gets messy in and out of the church because of the agency/nature of man and that this fact needs to be factored into everything that we experience in and out of the church. That it is not unreasonable to consider the possibility of life after life, and that this life is in some way a preparation...at least for some...for that future existence. That it is not unreasonable to excercise faith in that which is not seen but in which to some degree there are some indicators/evidences that this faith may not be misplaced.

The PP's, Scratch's, Bond's, Shades of this board have issues because they have not been able to move beyond a primary/seminary outlook towards the world and the church. They will say they have, but I honestly don't believe this to be the case. They are black/white thinkers...if you can call it thinking. They grew up literally thinking that all the thinking that ever had to be thunk had been done by someone other than themselves. They are very simplistic and naïve in their outlook towards what and who God is and how he may or may not operate in the universe. If he doesn't conform to their image, then he doesn't exist. They are ready and happy to jump on the secular bandwagon without the least provocation. They will say otherwise and call those such as myself a fool for even alluding to the possibility that this may be the case, but nonetheless, it is not unreasonable to come to the conclusion that they are the ones that have been duped and deluded into thinking "inside the box" of skepticism and doubt, to the exclusion of other possibilities.

To find out that Mormonism was not simply what they larned in primary/seminary and reading the New Era or Ensign threw them for a loop from which they never were able to extricate themselves and recover. Thus, we find them and others like them supposedly "recovering" over at the RFM board or here.

I go back to my first two paragraphs. I think it is not unreasonable to consider that what I've said there makes sense and may well even be true. If you are truly looking for peace rather than being forced to adhere only to the mushy, new age, rather simplistic formula that Bond put forward in his post (even if he was on acid...he he he), you may want to consider the possibility that truth is to be found within the LDS church.

She/he then responded that I was being somewhat incoherent to the extent that what I was saying was "clear as mud".

Was I that unclear in what I was attempting to say? by the way, I spelled learned...larned...intentionally. Maybe this threw him/her off, thinking I was a hick from Hicksville. <g>

After she/he responded and I responded back in kind, the conversation apparently went south even though there were a bunch of views on the topic after my last post.

Any thoughts?

Regards,
MG

Runtu wrote:I thought it was fairly clear and very much one of the standard answers I hear from church members. This is a variation on the "you just didn't get it" theme. Apparently, those who find that the church's serious problems of history and practice disqualify it as a "true church" are guilty of black and white thinking and haven't graduated past a seminary-level understand. Those enlightened people who look past the problems, however, are the ones who find peace.

Forgive me for finding this more than a bit condescending.

To find out that Mormonism was not simply what they larned in primary/seminary and reading the New Era or Ensign...

The Nehor wrote:
While it might appear condescending the reverse is that the categorical denials come across to the believers as arrogance. What can you do? Both can't be right so someone is offending somebody.

Runtu wrote:

The Nehor wrote:
While it might appear condescending the reverse is that the categorical denials come across to the believers as arrogance. What can you do? Both can't be right so someone is offending somebody.

I'm not in the habit of categorical denials. I'm happy with people finding fulfillment in Mormonism. I don't believe it's a true religion, but I don't begrudge those who do nor cast aspersions on their reasons for belief.

You can disagree without offending, in my opinion.

Maybe mentalgymnast was intending to offend, and I'm not so much offended as just irritated that this attitude is so prevalent.

Blixa wrote:This kind of thing is High Condescension:

To find out that Mormonism was not simply what they larned in primary/seminary and reading the New Era or Ensign...

As runtu said, its more of the "you didn't get it" thing, here made more sneering with the implication that one is still in "kindergarten" mode and maybe not "smart" enough to progress on to the supposedly "deeper" mysteries of Mormonism.

Well if "in primary/seminary" and "the New Era or Ensign" teach such gosh-durned simplistic and water-downed versions, why is that? Don't "the Brethren" think member are adults?

Its most certainly not a sign of mental slowness to imagine that church doctrines would be taught in church and promulgated in church publications.

But, why I bothering with this I don't know. The original post depends on a semi-retarded straw man concocted by someone who calls themselves "mentalgymnast." That alone speaks volumes.

p.s. I spelled "darned" "durned" on purpose.