There is discussion on MAD in which someone (Whoever) keeps asking if Professor Gee has ever published a reply to Professor Ritner's major published criticism of what he and Nibley have written about the Joseph Smith papyri.
I think he keeps asking because no-one ever answers him. Sooner or later the mods are bound to gag him, 'cos it makes Gee look dumb if he can't reply to his own teacher's attack published FOUR YEARS AGO (!!!), but has a Challenge pinned on the board saying he won't dialogue with anyone who can't pass a test in Egyptology.
Please, to save me dying of suspense while waiting for Whoever to be banned - has Gee ever answered Ritner? I don't mean apologetic stuff on the Fair/Farms board, I mean the real academic stuff, in a specialist journal with referees chosen by a board of editors qualified in Egyptology who don't work for a university where you get fired for apostasising from LDS belief.
Has John Gee answered Robert Ritner?
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_dartagnan
- _Emeritus
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According to Ritner Gee made some responses somewhere, and Ritner is writing an article in response to all of these which will be published in Brent Metcalfe's upcoming book on the Book of Abraham.
Gee didn't write the response to Ritner that was published in the FROB. Strangely enough Dan had some non-expert do it, and all he did was whine about Ritner's anti-Mormon attitude. He didn't address a single argument.
Gee didn't write the response to Ritner that was published in the FROB. Strangely enough Dan had some non-expert do it, and all he did was whine about Ritner's anti-Mormon attitude. He didn't address a single argument.
“All knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends in it...Propositions arrived at by purely logical means are completely empty as regards reality." - Albert Einstein
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_dartagnan
- _Emeritus
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- Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2006 4:27 pm
No. He just said Gee has been more visible (academic meetings) but not more respected in the academic environment. Dan peterson keeps alluding to these scholarly journals where Gee refuted Ritner but he never provides the exact sources either. Gee has no online CV which details his publications. I emailed him about two years ago to ask him where these publications could be found but he didn't respond.
“All knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends in it...Propositions arrived at by purely logical means are completely empty as regards reality." - Albert Einstein
Gee's CV
Daniel Peterson has posted the follow comments on the MAD board:
"Incidentally, as Dr. Gee is demonstrating, very methodically, in presentation after presentation, Dr. Ritner's own translations can be questioned, too."
"I'm aware that Professor Gee has been responding piecemeal to some of Professor Ritner's claims in various international Egyptological venues. I can't tell you, because I don't know, whether any of those responses have yet appeared in print."
"Professor Gee is actually responding to Ritner. Gradually, bit by bit, in the appropriate scholarly venues. (Did you not notice the mention, above, of one or two scholarly conferences to which Professor Gee has made presentations on topics relevant to Ritner's attack?)"
Quoting John Gee: "'In regard to Professor Ritner's standards, anyone who has not read my response, "S3 mi nn: A Temporary Conclusion," Göttinger Miszellen 202 (2004): 55-58 is NOT in a position to comment on the matter.'"
Quoting John Gee: "'Some responses are in press but have been given at national and international Egyptological conferences and are or will be published in the appropriate venues. At this point, I have given Professor Ritner's piece almost all the response that it deserves.'"
Out of interest, I put together an incomplete list of articles and papers by Gee:
Articles:
"The use of the daily temple liturgy in the Book of the Dead," in Backes, Burkhard [Hrsg.], ed., Totenbuch-Forschungen
gesammelte Beiträge des 2. Internationalen Totenbuch-Symposiums Bonn, 25. bis 29. September 2005 (Wiesbaden: 2006), 73-86.
"Prophets, Initiation, and the Egyptian Temple," Journal of the Society for the Study of Egyptian Antiquities 31 (2004): 97-107.
"S3 mi nn: A Temporary Conclusion," Göttinger Miszellen 202 (2004): 55-58.
"Trial Marriage in Ancient Egypt?: P. Louvre E. 7846 Reconsidered," in Res severa verum gaudium, ed. Friedrich Hoffmann and Günther Vittmann (Leuven: Peeters, 2004), 223–31.
"Ba Sending and Its Implications," in Egyptology at the Dawn of the Twenty-first Century, 3 vols. (Cairo: The American University in Cairo Press, 2003), 2:230-237.
"The Earliest Example of the ph-ntr?" Göttinger Miszellen 194 (2003): 25-27.
"Notes on Egyptian marriage: P. BM 10416 reconsidered," Bulletin of the Egyptological Seminar 15 (2002): 17-25.
"Oracle by Image: Coffin Text 103 in Context," Leda Ciraolo and Jonathan Seidel, eds., Magic and Divination in the Ancient World (Ancient Magic and Divination II; Leiden: Brill, 2002), 83-88.
"The Structure of Lamp Divination," in Kim Ryholt, ed., Acts of the Seventh International Conference of Demotic Studies (Copenhagen: The Carsten Niebuhr Institute of Near Eastern Studies, University of Copenhagen, 2002), 207-18.
"Towards an Interpretation of Hypocephali," in Mélanges offerts à Edith Varga “Le lotus qui sort de terre” (Budapest: Bulletin du Musée Hongrois des Beaux-Arts, 2002), 325-334 (this article has been cited by "Brugsch" on the MAD board)
Bezalel Porten and John Gee, "Aramaic Funerary Practices in Egypt," in The World of the Aramaeans II (Sheffield: Sheffield Academic Press, 2001).
Papers:
Cheek by Jowl: Demotic Evidence for Fourth Century Religious Interactions in the Nile Valley (2006 SBL meeting)
The Export of the Egyptian Scribe (2006 SBL meeting)
Comparative Cult (2005 SBL meeting)
Dreams and Angels in Ancient Egypt (2004 SBL meeting) (see footnotes 86 and 143)
I also noticed in Gee's FARMS article on Facsimile 3 and Book of the Dead 125 that he criticizes Ritner (see footnote 24).
"Incidentally, as Dr. Gee is demonstrating, very methodically, in presentation after presentation, Dr. Ritner's own translations can be questioned, too."
"I'm aware that Professor Gee has been responding piecemeal to some of Professor Ritner's claims in various international Egyptological venues. I can't tell you, because I don't know, whether any of those responses have yet appeared in print."
"Professor Gee is actually responding to Ritner. Gradually, bit by bit, in the appropriate scholarly venues. (Did you not notice the mention, above, of one or two scholarly conferences to which Professor Gee has made presentations on topics relevant to Ritner's attack?)"
Quoting John Gee: "'In regard to Professor Ritner's standards, anyone who has not read my response, "S3 mi nn: A Temporary Conclusion," Göttinger Miszellen 202 (2004): 55-58 is NOT in a position to comment on the matter.'"
Quoting John Gee: "'Some responses are in press but have been given at national and international Egyptological conferences and are or will be published in the appropriate venues. At this point, I have given Professor Ritner's piece almost all the response that it deserves.'"
Out of interest, I put together an incomplete list of articles and papers by Gee:
Articles:
"The use of the daily temple liturgy in the Book of the Dead," in Backes, Burkhard [Hrsg.], ed., Totenbuch-Forschungen
gesammelte Beiträge des 2. Internationalen Totenbuch-Symposiums Bonn, 25. bis 29. September 2005 (Wiesbaden: 2006), 73-86.
"Prophets, Initiation, and the Egyptian Temple," Journal of the Society for the Study of Egyptian Antiquities 31 (2004): 97-107.
"S3 mi nn: A Temporary Conclusion," Göttinger Miszellen 202 (2004): 55-58.
"Trial Marriage in Ancient Egypt?: P. Louvre E. 7846 Reconsidered," in Res severa verum gaudium, ed. Friedrich Hoffmann and Günther Vittmann (Leuven: Peeters, 2004), 223–31.
"Ba Sending and Its Implications," in Egyptology at the Dawn of the Twenty-first Century, 3 vols. (Cairo: The American University in Cairo Press, 2003), 2:230-237.
"The Earliest Example of the ph-ntr?" Göttinger Miszellen 194 (2003): 25-27.
"Notes on Egyptian marriage: P. BM 10416 reconsidered," Bulletin of the Egyptological Seminar 15 (2002): 17-25.
"Oracle by Image: Coffin Text 103 in Context," Leda Ciraolo and Jonathan Seidel, eds., Magic and Divination in the Ancient World (Ancient Magic and Divination II; Leiden: Brill, 2002), 83-88.
"The Structure of Lamp Divination," in Kim Ryholt, ed., Acts of the Seventh International Conference of Demotic Studies (Copenhagen: The Carsten Niebuhr Institute of Near Eastern Studies, University of Copenhagen, 2002), 207-18.
"Towards an Interpretation of Hypocephali," in Mélanges offerts à Edith Varga “Le lotus qui sort de terre” (Budapest: Bulletin du Musée Hongrois des Beaux-Arts, 2002), 325-334 (this article has been cited by "Brugsch" on the MAD board)
Bezalel Porten and John Gee, "Aramaic Funerary Practices in Egypt," in The World of the Aramaeans II (Sheffield: Sheffield Academic Press, 2001).
Papers:
Cheek by Jowl: Demotic Evidence for Fourth Century Religious Interactions in the Nile Valley (2006 SBL meeting)
The Export of the Egyptian Scribe (2006 SBL meeting)
Comparative Cult (2005 SBL meeting)
Dreams and Angels in Ancient Egypt (2004 SBL meeting) (see footnotes 86 and 143)
I also noticed in Gee's FARMS article on Facsimile 3 and Book of the Dead 125 that he criticizes Ritner (see footnote 24).
Gee's CV
Since they have been trumpeted by Gee and Brugsch, I would be most interested in seeing the following articles:
"S3 mi nn: A Temporary Conclusion," Göttinger Miszellen 202 (2004): 55-58.
"Towards an Interpretation of Hypocephali," in Mélanges offerts à Edith Varga “Le lotus qui sort de terre” (Budapest: Bulletin du Musée Hongrois des Beaux-Arts, 2002), 325-334.
"S3 mi nn: A Temporary Conclusion," Göttinger Miszellen 202 (2004): 55-58.
"Towards an Interpretation of Hypocephali," in Mélanges offerts à Edith Varga “Le lotus qui sort de terre” (Budapest: Bulletin du Musée Hongrois des Beaux-Arts, 2002), 325-334.