KEVIN: Please tell us about the LDS Apologetics e-list

[_Dr. Shades]

Hi Kevin,

Several years ago I came across a website which described an LDS Apologetics e-list. It said that in order to get involved, one had to be sponsored by another member and vouched for by X number of others.

I looked at the member list and was shocked and amazed: EVERYONE who was ANYONE in the world of LDS apologetics was on that e-mail list. Every name in the online world was there, along with a great many of the big-name BYU scholars, especially those who'd had anything to do with the FARMS Review.

I remember wishing I could be a fly on the wall to see what sort of things were discussed there. Was it smack-talk against the critics? Was it discussing new evidence in favor of the Book of Mormon? Was it feedback for a FARMS Review or an apologetic website? Was it something different, or was it all of the above?

I recall--and you have recently verified--that you were a member of that list. So, if you can, please tell us: What was that list like? How many messages per day were generated? What sort of things were discussed? What was the "culture" of the place? Is it still functional, and is there an archive anywhere?

Of course, that's only a starting point. If you have time, please tell us about the LDS Apologetics e-list, since none of us non-apologists know anything about it.

[_rcrocket]

I was a member for many years, having been sponsored by another. A lot of it was technical stuff; discussing the latest pending publications, books, reviews, FARMS etc. Some of it was requests for information and discussion of what was found. Some was upcoming events. There was also a lawsuit pending by Rev. Kurt van Gorden which consumed lots of discussion. At the time I was on it, there was increasing discussion about things said on the boards, but actually very little. Almost nothing about RFM that I recall.

I also recall extensive quoting from original journal material to assist scholars working in the area.

It was the result of the my participation on this list that I was invited to be a FARMS scholar.

The list was reorganized about 2-3 (?) years ago as a result of something I said, and we had to all go through a re-invite process. I did not submit myself to the reinvite process.

There was a more exclusive list (skinny) of which I was not a member; there was lots of cross-posting to that list.

All in all the tone was very scholarly -- too scholarly for my patience as a lawyer. I recall little reference to critics except when the papers were leading in that direction -- Palmer, Metcalfe, Compton etc. There was discussion, for instance, of the level of work to respond to Metalfe's book. There was no discussion of what I would call second-tier critics, such as Shades. It wasn't much of a gossip board.

There were ten or more posts a day.

rcrocket

[_dartagnan]

No I wasn't a member of the list you're referring to. I should have been clearer. I said recently in a post that Doug Yancey wanted to meet me and verify my temple recommend, etc. Richard Hopkins, along with a few others didn't like the idea of submitting me because I was too young and inexperienced. This was back in 1998 and all they knew about me was that I had an apologetic website that was, to say the least, amateur. But Doug was a local and liked the idea of having someone in the same town on the list. But I had to be interviewed.

I never got the chance to meet Doug and then shortly afterwards I ended up moving to Orlando, so I never really sought membership after that. I was told teh list was pretty dead anyway. It wasn't like FAIR where there were discussions every day. This particular e-list would go weeks without anyone posting; but you're right, it was considered elite in the sense that all the big names were there. I was a member of several other e-lists, one which was started by Roger Cook, and of course the FAIR e-list.

[_Dr. Shades]

Ahh, thanks for clarifying.

But now that you mention the FAIR e-list, I knew of the existence of that, too, but I know you have to be a believing Mormon to be approved for inclusion.

So, since we're on the topic of e-lists, what was the FAIR e-list like?

[_dartagnan]

The FAIR e-list was awesome for about two years, probably because the primary participants were of the liberal persuasion. People like Ben McGuire, Ted Jones, Kevin Barney, Marc Schindler, were among my favorites. But at some point someone at FAIR opened the flood gates and a ton of amateur rookies straight from their missions had entered and taken over. The liberal positions became less tolerated, and political correctness became a prominent force to be dealt with if you were liberal.

I think I was banned from it in 2003 when I complained about the rumor-mongering that took place at a recent FAIR conference. I also had a bout with Allen Wyatt, and he looked awfully stupid trying to say Kimball didn't really mean people were changing skin color as they became affiliated with the Church. He accused me of taking him out of context until the more popular posters expressed their agreement with me. Then it was shortly after that I was baned for mentioning someone "Junia" said to me on the phone. It made some of the women at FAIR, mainly Juliann, look awfully foolish, and Juliann had been bothering Scott all night with phone calls trying to get me banned. The funny thing is Scott agreed with me and then after Juliann pressured him, decided to ban me and bid me farewell.

Many people did not like this decision. Ben McGuire defended me in my absence but the mods told everyone to drop it so they did. In any event, FAIR was going to implement a $25 registration fee to be on the list and this meant many of the veterans were going to leave anyway. So if you wanted on the list in 2004, all you had to do was send them a check for 25 bucks. I have no idea how it is now.

Also they kept an archive of all messages ever posted on the forum, but I suspect they have closed it down by now.