Let's just admit the obvious truth!!!

[_Mr. Coffee]

You mean how you've gone through taking the time to point out that Kevin is an infuriatingly rude, oft dense person to joking around with him and criticizing those who attack him for how he interacts with others? Yeah, that would take a lot of time. Time I don't have. You know what I'm speaking of. I don't need to jump through hoops to have accomplished my goal in pointing it out.

In other words, you have nothing to support your statement. Just want to keep the story straight.

yup, the Light's on, but the bulb's still dim...

[_beastie]

You mean how you've gone through taking the time to point out that Kevin is an infuriatingly rude, oft dense person to joking around with him and criticizing those who attack him for how he interacts with others? Yeah, that would take a lot of time. Time I don't have. You know what I'm speaking of. I don't need to jump through hoops to have accomplished my goal in pointing it out.

No. Read my request again:

Interesting observation. Can you share some quotes of mine that show I am now a fan of his "interpersonal relations"?

Thanks in advance.

I want evidence that I am NOW a fan of his "interpersonal relations".

Again, thanks in advance.

[_harmony]

In other words, you have nothing to support your statement. Just want to keep the story straight.

I understand that honesty is not something that you value, but this is not an accurate paraphrasing of what I wrote. I think recalling the evidence, including hunting down posts on message boards that do not have adequate search engines, is a prohibitively difficult task. Fortunately, my goal wasn't to convince independent observers of anything, so that's not a problem. My goal was to point out to Beastie something I think Beastie already can recognize. Whether she chooses to deny it for rhetorical purposes is her perogative.

We aren't discussing my honesty. Try to stay focused. Trixie asked for documentation of your statement. You choose to not provide any. Thus you have nothing to support your statement. That providing that documentation would be difficult or prohibitive is not under discussion; you made an allegation. Trixie asked for documentation. You didn't provide any. So your statement stands as your opinion only, not a terribly strong foundation, but it appears to be all you've got at this point. Your opinion is as useful as anyone else's (which means we'll base our acceptance of your opinion on our ability to trust you. I'm not seeing a great response here, but I've been wrong before.)

[_A Light in the Darkness]

We aren't discussing my honesty. Try to stay focused. Trixie asked for documentation of your statement. You choose to not provide any. Thus you have nothing to support your statement.

Either you are continuing to be dishonest, or you are an amazingly inept thinker. Possibly both. You cannot reasonably conclude from a person "not providing documentation" that they have "nothing to support [their] statement." One doesn't follow the other automatically. For instance, it just might be too difficult to provide such documentation relative to the interest they have in doing so. After all, I'm not interested in proving what I said to anyone. I think Beastie knows what I said is true, and I was content to point it out to her. That you later glibly dismiss this suggests either you, again, don't get it or are just uninterested in intellectually honest dialogue.

[_A Light in the Darkness]

No. Read my request again:

I got it the first time. I don't feel the need to break down your interactions with him post by post and show how they have shifted from pointing out your disdain for how he interacts with others to a friendly tone that mocks others for pointing out the flaws in how he interacts with others. I trust you know you have done this, and I realize it would take hours of my time and a concentrated mental effort to come up with something. It's not worth it for such a trivial point I think my target audience (you) is either going to accept or reject absent that effort.

[_beastie]

Either you are continuing to be dishonest, or you are an amazingly inept thinker. Possibly both. You cannot reasonably conclude from a person "not providing documentation" that they have "nothing to support [their] statement." One doesn't follow the other automatically. For instance, it just might be too difficult to provide such documentation relative to the interest they have in doing so. After all, I'm not interested in proving what I said to anyone. I think Beastie knows what I said is true, and I was content to point it out to her. That you later glibly dismiss this suggests either you, again, don't get it or are just uninterested in intellectually honest dialogue.

Once again, you are not offering evidence that I currently am a fan of his 'interpersonal relations'. I encourage you to provide any evidence you can find.

Of course you will find plenty of evidence that I support some of his stands, such as whether or not Gee threatened a lawsuit. But surely you are intelligent enough to be able to differentiate between supporting someone's stand, and supporting or being a fan of their "interpersonal relations".

Knowing you are intelligent enough to differentiate between these two issues, I eagerly await for your evidence that I am currently a fan of Kevin's 'interpersonal relations'.

Again, thanks in advance.

by the way, you may want to PM Ray about making statements that lead one to believe you are one and the same person. If he hasn't changed his sig line recently, that's what you want to check.

[_harmony]

We aren't discussing my honesty. Try to stay focused. Trixie asked for documentation of your statement. You choose to not provide any. Thus you have nothing to support your statement.

Either you are continuing to be dishonest, or you are an amazingly inept thinker. Possibly both. You cannot reasonably conclude from a person "not providing documentation" that they have "nothing to support [their] statement." One doesn't follow the other automatically. For instance, it just might be too difficult to provide such documentation relative to the interest they have in doing so. After all, I'm not interested in proving what I said to anyone. I think Beastie knows what I said is true, and I was content to point it out to her. That you later glibly dismiss this suggests either you, again, don't get it or are just uninterested in intellectually honest dialogue.

You continue to not get it, Light. This isn't about me; it's about you.

Trixie isn't accepting your statement as true. She asked for documentation. You didn't provide it. With no documentation, your statement is unsupported, a non-starter, to use your current favorite: intellectually dishonest.

[_Mr. Coffee]

Trixie isn't accepting your statement as true. She asked for documentation. You didn't provide it. With no documentation, your statement is unsupported, a non-starter, to use your current favorite: intellectually dishonest.

I'm starting to doubt if ALitD would even know what intellectual honesty was if it punched him in the crotch.

[_A Light in the Darkness]

Of course you will find plenty of evidence that I support some of his stands, such as whether or not Gee threatened a lawsuit. But surely you are intelligent enough to be able to differentiate between supporting someone's stand, and supporting or being a fan of their "interpersonal relations".

Knowing you are intelligent enough to differentiate between these two issues, I eagerly await for your evidence that I am currently a fan of Kevin's 'interpersonal relations'.

I don't know how much more clearly I can spell it out. I think the evidence is in your shift in tone from openly pointing out your disdain for how he relates to others to being friendly towards it. In order to establish this, I have to go over a lengthy posting history, select samples, and make commentary on it. This is something I don't want to do, as it is prohibitively difficult. Whether you will acknowledge it here or not, I'm perfectly content to just make the observation. Kevin has gone from hated to liked almost entirely because of a switch from apologist to anti-apologist. Harmony, meanwhile. will be content to call me intellectually dishonest because she doesn't feel I have proven to her satisfaction a comment I made even while explicitly pointing why it doesn't make much sense for me to open up a research project to document it. One of the best defenses of a disingenuous person, after all, is to make that accusation against others who point out their nature.

by the way, you may want to PM Ray about making statements that lead one to believe you are one and the same person. If he hasn't changed his sig line recently, that's what you want to check.

I'm not sure what you are talking about.

[_Dr. Shades]

It's amazing how little is changed in Kevin's personality, yet Beastie has gone from bashing Kevin's style of interpersonal relations to becoming a fan. The only thing that has changed is what team he spends his time playing for. I guess Beastie feels he has gone through the proper tribal rites, so a different standard now applies.

Note the fact that, at least as far as this most recent controversy is concerned (as opposed to several years ago), Kevin never attacked first. He simply posted the results of an e-mail of inquiry, then everyone else launched into him with personal attacks.

Kevin has spent nearly every post since then merely defending himself. Stridently defending himself, perhaps, but merely defending himself nonetheless.

In other words, he didn't draw first blood.