Its interesting how times have changed. I remember years ago when I first stumbled across online message boards, and the first one I went to was Apologetics.com, and I marveled as you did battle as Metatron against Rob Bowman.
I think you're confusing me with Kevin Winters. But yes, I used to get into heavy theological arguments with Bowman and the like. But just to contrast then and now, there was a time when Dan Peterson and I were hacking it out together on the Walter Martin e-list. We were pretty much the only LDS there, aside from the occasional Lou Midgley appearance. That must have been around 1999 or perhaps earlier.
I haven't followed all of your history, but I have noticed the changes in your position. Have you posted a summary about your situation?
No. Nobody really has asked me to, but apologists at FAIR like to get me to admit my convictions in detail just so they can use it against me. Suffice it to say I am a member in good standing, and I have made a personal decision to stick it out for the time being. About four years ago I had an epiphany when I saw the Book of Abraham controversy from a bird's eye view. I decided I would give apologetics a chance on this one even though Nibley and Gee had screwed things up from the start. I'm still waiting to be convinced that the "anti-Mormon" arguments are without merit. Over the past year or so Hauglid has made some attempts but I thought they were ridiculous, which explains further my frustration. EVeryone over there thinks I have been dying to see the death of the Book of Abraham, and by extension, the Church. Nothing could be further from the truth. I've just learned to reject crappy apologetics, and when I see it, I respond accordingly.
Have you left the church officially? Anyway, just curious.
No, and I have no intentions of doing that. As I explained to my wife, as well as on the forums, I think Mormonism has a tremendous amount of good to offer. I have absolutely no problems allowing my children attend Church every week. Until I see it becoming a danger - which I don't predict - I will continue to support them if they choose to remain in the Church. What I won't do is force them to bear their testimony while whispering the prepared lines in their ears. I never received an overwhelmingly spiritual experience that couldn't reasonably be explained in other ways, but that doesn't mean it isn't possible my children could receive one. Maybe I didn't receive one because I really am the anti-Christ. Who knows? At this point in my life I have decided to follow my own conscience and not feelings. Pushing 40 now I have become more of a realist, so the mental gymnastics I was used to performing as an apologist, just seems immature and a waste of time now. And surprisingly, ever since I had this epiphany my life has turned out for the best in virtually every respect. But I guess that could be explained as Satan rewarding me for converting to the dark side.
I just no longer have the desire to spend my life defending something that might not be true after all. I couldn't think of a more depressing situation to be in than to turn 80 years old knowing you spent 60 years with all your passion focused on something that wasn't true. The past 20 years as an apologist hasn't made me a better person. In fact, one could argue that it has made me worse. We always talk about how things "strengthen" our testimonies, but I think this is just stuff we say to compensate for the fact that we're no more stronger in the faith now than we were before apologetics entered our lives. In my experience, people who enter apologetics lose that conservative edge and either become liberal Mormons or inactive. They encounter just too much stuff that makes a reasonable person think: "Would God's Church really need to defend itself against THIS much junk?" I mean the list is endless and the apologetic responses are clearly valid for only about half of them. The rest we just have to take on faith while rehearsing "I know the Church is true" in our heads. Seriously, some of my best apologist friends send me emails with no advice other than that! "Keep the faith" and you'll eventually remember why you know it is true.
Interestingly enough, I have become a doubter myself, though active in appearance.
Well, I don't play games about this. When people ask me I tell them straight up that I have issues with the Church's truth claims.
But its was the lack of spiritual experiences that got me where I am, not the apologetic issues. Funny how that can happen.
I understand that entirely, because if it weren't for the lack of undeniable spiritual experiences, I doubt anyone would ever leave the Church. I look back on my " conversion experience" and realize I was just a 16 year-old kid who wanted the Church to be true more than anything else in the world. I stayed up all night praying, as certain as could be that God would show up like he did with Joseph Smith. I stayed up so late that I fell asleep. When I woke up on the floor the next morning I tried to remember what I had dreamed about, hoping God answered me in a dream or something. I simply couldn't accept the possibility that God would answer the prayers of so many Mormons but not me. So I tried again, and again, and again, for weeks, often leaving the room in tears. My parents said I couldn't get baptized until I was 19 anyway, but I still wanted to go ahead and " find out." After many failed attempts I decided that I knew the Church was true anyway. I rationalized for myself how I actually received an answer subconciously because I felt good in the mornings after praying and crying. I mean they kept telling me my feelings was the key, and I obviously felt it was true. So maybe God would give me that undeniable "whammy" of a spiritual experience at some point later on in my life. So I waited for it for so long that I forgot what I was waiting for. Then I got into apologetics right after my mission. Actually, before and during my mission, but the internet came alive shortly after I returned and I immediately made a website countering anti-Mormon arguments.
Anyway, the Church has institutionalized a system of trying to convince members that virtually everything good that they feel is a spiritual experience, and that they should write it in their journal to keep reminding themselves that they had it. I see Mormons actually trying to compete with one another on who can tell the most spiritual experience. The Church leaders are generally those with the most amazing stories; lttle wonder Paul H. Dunn became a GA.
Anyway, like I said before, just wondering if you had any sort of summarized post about you personal struggles. I'd be interested in reading that story.
Never really thought about it until people ask me. I suppose one day I could write something up, but I'm reluctant because I know how it will be taken at MAD. If I share my experiences it is because people ask me, not because I have been conditioned to do so (i.e. Why haven't you born your testimony lately!!)