Page 1 of 3

Mighty C smacks down Prof P

Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 7:59 am
by _grayskull
Mighty Curelem has a thread on FAIR's official message board, Incompetant Bafoon publishes dozens of papers in respected journals.

Dr. Danny R. Faulkner is a drooling, brain dead cretin who somehow managed to con his way into a teaching position at USC Lancaster. And in spite of his mental handicap, also published dozens of papers in respected scientific journals--papers with impressive sounding names like "Photoelectric Observations and Epochs of Minimum Light, Southwest Lacertae," published by the Astronomical Society of the Pacific.

Now, why would I say he has the mental capacity of mold? Well, he's a New Earth Creationist. He actually believes the universe and everything in it is about 6,000 years old. Yes, you heard right--a man with a PhD in astronomy who also happens to be a biblical literalist, and who believes there is evidence supporting the 6,000 year deadline derived from scripture. In fact, he's written a book about it, called "Universe by Design."

But wait a minute: they don't just hand out PhDs like candy. They don't give professorships to complete nincompoops. The Astronomical Society doesn't publish insane rants from gibbering idiots. The only other option is that Dr. Danny R. Faulkner is NOT an incompetent boob; that he's NOT a doddering fool; that he's actually an intelligent fellow with well thought out ideas and hard evidence to support them. If he has published papers in respected scientific journals, his book about creationism must meet the same high standards and use the same methodology as his mainstream scientific work.

So, all you New Earth Creationism doubters, what do you have to say for yourselves? How do you reconcile the fact that a well respected man of science, an intelligent and competent professor of Astronomy, can also be a New Earth Creationist? How can you dismiss his book when his other work has met the high standards of mainstream scientific journals?


To this, Dr. P responds,

And I, too, can see where he's going with this. But if he thinks that the fact that an apparently highly educated and professionally competent person can hold an unusual and seemingly incorrect position somehow proves that all unusual positions held by apparently highly educated and professionally competent persons can be dismissed, on that basis, as incorrect, he needs a course in elementary logic.


I suppose P's elementary course in logic would entail something on hasty generalizations. The irony of course, is that MC is in no way arguing for what Prof. P claims. He is, in fact, demonstrating it is the apologists who need to learn something about hasty generalizations. We can re-word P's response to demonstrate clearly it is in fact P himself who is guilty of that which he wrongly accuses MC of, MC could have rightly said:

And I, too, can see where he's going with this. But if he thinks that the fact that an apparently highly educated and professionally competent person can hold an unusual and seemingly incorrect position somehow proves that unusual positions held by apparently highly educated and professionally competent persons should be taken every bit as seriously as perviously successful work by highly educated and professionally competent persons, on that basis alone, he is incorrect, he needs a course in elementary logic.

Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 4:33 pm
by _Some Schmo
This is awesome. MC is one of the few people from over there (that don't also post here) that I really miss.

Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 4:49 pm
by _Mister Scratch
Lol!! Yeah, poor Prof. P.---he always really, really hates it when his own self-deprecating jokes are turned back on him. Perhaps he will show up, using his "ALitD" sockpuppet to lecture us? Ooh! I can't wait!

Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 5:34 pm
by _Some Schmo
Mister Scratch wrote:Lol!! Yeah, poor Prof. P.---he always really, really hates it when his own self-deprecating jokes are turned back on him. Perhaps he will show up, using his "ALitD" sockpuppet to lecture us? Ooh! I can't wait!


Incidentally, Scratch, have you noticed ALitD has not commented on our observations of his posting style and the signs that he's another DCP sockpuppet? Could it be that it's better to remain silent on this matter because to deny it would be lying? Of course, even to come on and pretend that he wouldn't "dignify it with a response" would still be a deception.

The only way he could do that would be to somehow justify the deception, and then we'd have to suffer a long philosophical debate on the merits of one deception over another, or how the dictionary definition of the word deception is wrong, or how we don’t understand like he does what people really mean when they use the word deception, so arguing with us on it is a lost cause. I mean, let's face it; when you dedicate a good portion of your time to being an apologist for a deception, you better know the finer points of the word deception, hadn't you?

Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 5:34 pm
by _asbestosman
If it's a hasty generalization to dismiss the unusual opinions and also a hasty generalization to take them seriously, then pray tell what ought one to do in such circumstances?

Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 5:38 pm
by _Some Schmo
asbestosman wrote:If it's a hasty generalization to dismiss the unusual opinions and also a hasty generalization to take them seriously, then pray tell what ought one to do in such circumstances?


Yes, what *is* one to do, given that not making hasty generalizations is not an option?

*rolls eyes*

Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 5:49 pm
by _asbestosman
Some Schmo wrote:Yes, what *is* one to do, given that not making hasty generalizations is not an option?

*rolls eyes*


Make the hasty generalization which is most self-serving of course. Since I don't have time to become an expert on every such assertion, I suppose that such is the only rational option.

*sticks out tongue and puts open hand's thumb against forehead while blowing a raspberry and doing the hokey-pokey*

Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 5:49 pm
by _Mister Scratch
Some Schmo wrote:
Mister Scratch wrote:Lol!! Yeah, poor Prof. P.---he always really, really hates it when his own self-deprecating jokes are turned back on him. Perhaps he will show up, using his "ALitD" sockpuppet to lecture us? Ooh! I can't wait!


Incidentally, Scratch, have you noticed ALitD has not commented on our observations of his posting style and the signs that he's another DCP sockpuppet? Could it be that it's better to remain silent on this matter because to deny it would be lying? Of course, even to come on and pretend that he wouldn't "dignify it with a response" would still be a deception.


You are quite right, Schmo. I bandied around some different names---Will Schryver, Ray A, etc.---but I think that DCP is the best guess yet. The one sentence rejoinders that pepper ALitD's posts are another stylistic signpost. But, I don't need this latest sockpuppet to tell me that the Good Professor is dishonest and deceptive and duplicitous. I have his prior sockpuppets, his gossipmongering, and his smear tactics to show me that.

Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 8:31 pm
by _guy sajer
Mister Scratch wrote:You are quite right, Schmo. I bandied around some different names---Will Schryver, Ray A, etc.---but I think that DCP is the best guess yet. The one sentence rejoinders that pepper ALitD's posts are another stylistic signpost. But, I don't need this latest sockpuppet to tell me that the Good Professor is dishonest and deceptive and duplicitous. I have his prior sockpuppets, his gossipmongering, and his smear tactics to show me that.


Between ALitD and Coggins, I was almost convinced that atheists are all a bunch of amoral, nihilistic boobs.

The one trait I've noticed about ALitD (whether this is true about DCP I don't know) and Coggins is a persistent unwillingness (or inability, you decide) to square theory with empirical evidence. Their purely ontological arguments regarding the moral sense of atheists (and that of Beckwith-(worth?) who they love to cite) might make some sense in a purely philosophical debate (assuming agreement on their very questionable assumptions), but they fail miserably in the empirical realm, unless they have devised some objective method of assessing one's moral capacity (atheists, such as myself, assert moral thoughts, feelings, ideas, behaviors etc. as much as believers, but apparently our morality lacks the same meaning by some, according to it appears, a purely subjective theoretical construct). One can sit around and debate ad nauseum whether atheists are "moral in a theoretical sense, yet the empirical record (at least by casual observation, and I'm guessing also there's systematic empirical evidence to back it up) overwhelmingly demonstrates that they are.

Regarding persons, and arguments, of this type, I think that Dawkins describes ALitD and Coggins as well as I could when he talks about a "deep suspicion of any line of reasoning that reached . . . significant conclusion without feeding a single piece of data from the real world. . . . " More, "you could almost define a philosopher as someone who won't take common sense as an answer."

Amen, Br. Dawkings, Amen.

I should add that this tendency noted above is implied by Mormon epistemology. If Mormon epistemology is accurate, this implies, therefore, that all other religious experiences that testify to some "truth," are inherently invalid or less valid than those that affirm Mormonism. Plus, Mormon epistemology is precisely the type of thing Dawkins is criticizing above; reaching firm determinations of truth without factoring a single piece of real world data. Even worse, the paradigm in which the epistemology resides denigrates the attempt to feed in real world data, well, that is as long as the real world data might contradict the "truth" arrived at through entirely ontological means.

When you stop to think about it, it's really pretty amazing; an entire system of belief based on the fundamental assertion that real world data is unnecessary, indeed even undesirable, to know "truth."

And our believing colleagues find it hard to understand that there are those of us for whom this is not a satisfactory method of truth seeking?

Yes further evidence that believers really, really need to step outside their theoretical constructs and actually observe the world now and then.

Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 8:46 pm
by _Some Schmo
guy sajer wrote: The one trait I've noticed about ALitD (whether this is true about DCP I don't know) and Coggins is a persistent unwillingness (or inability, you decide) to square theory with empirical evidence.

...

Regarding persons, and arguments, of this type, I think that Dawkins describes ALitD and Coggins as well as I could when he talks about a "deep suspicion of any line of reasoning that reached . . . significant conclusion without feeding a single piece of data from the real world. . . . " More, "you could almost define a philosopher as someone who won't take common sense as an answer."

Amen, Br. Dawkings, Amen.


This is an excellent observation, and I think it is one that also could be viewed as evidence of DCP's sockpuppetry. I've often wondered of Danny-boy whether he actually has observed, or was made aware of anything real around him in the physical world. I imagine that at a certain point, the only way to support arguments (when building up an entire belief "system") of an outrageous nature in your own head (eg. apologetic arguments) is to be willing to ignore as much reality as you can get away with and still survive.

Great quote, too.