Nibley -- Again

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_Gadianton
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Nibley -- Again

Post by _Gadianton »

Ok, first off, yeah, I post here. It's just a matter of pride and self-deception that I didn't register this name or "Sidewinder" because see, I have this issue. Dramatic final posts. I exited rather dramatically a year ago and haven't quite been able to own up to the fact that I started lurking, and then posting. Though, in my defense, not nearly as much as I used to. Life has settled down a bit, so, why not enjoy things I like to do. Since most of my associates are already in the know on my hypocrisy, might as well just own up to the rest and be done with it.

So now, the post...

Dr. Streuss over on the discussion board which officially represents the views of FAIR has a post about Nibley and he writes:

Often on other boards (and sometimes here) I read claims about Hugh Nibley’s incompetence and pseudo-scholarship. There is even a recent trend for these claims to come from LDS posters. So, my question is: Is this true? Were Paul Own and Carl Mosser mistaken when they agreed with Truman Madsen that “To those who know him best, and least, Hugh with. Nibley is a prodigy, an enigma, and a symbol.”


This is sort of a false dilemma. It's not a choice between pseudoscholarship and genius. I think Nibley was clearly a genius and had some rare gifts in language abilities and memory. But I also think he was, all things considered, a pseudoscholar. An IQ of 449 (which is average for an apologist as they self-report) doesn't guarantee credible research. And what I've tried to get from Nibley fans in the past is some kind of gauge for his true accomplishments. It's clear that he had a number of articles published in real scholarly journals, but that's par for the course for any associate professor trying to keep a job. That hardly makes him an "Enigma". Which articles or projects that he worked on are milestones for Arabic studies or antiquities in general? Which textbooks note Hugh Nibley as the quintessential thinker of anything? What work of Nibley even puts him on the scholarly radar let alone sets him well above other scholars in his field? Perhaps there's an answer to this, but I'm still waiting on it.

Nibley's work reminds me a lot of Immanuel Velikovsky's. Velikovsky was also a genius and had a knack for synthesizing volumes upon volumes of ancient lore into the most outrageous hypotheses imaginable. Nibley was an Enigma because he had these rare abilities whereby he could commit half the protologia, or rather half the BYU library to memory. He's not an Enigma because of his actual contributions to the scholarly world.
_Mercury
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Post by _Mercury »

Nibley was a short man in a land of intellectual pigmies.
And crawling on the planet's face
Some insects called the human race
Lost in time
And lost in space...and meaning
_DonBradley
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Post by _DonBradley »

I agree with Gad that even great intelligence and erudition in themselves won't often lead to correct conclusions in the absence of open-ended inquiry and the systematic analysis of evidence. That Nibley's methods were quite problematic was argued forcefully during his lifetime (around 1988) in a BYU Studies review by Religion professor Kent P. Jackson. Jackson's is probably still the best critique of Nibley's methods and work to date, and--plainly--is not biased against Professor Nibley or Latter-day Saint faith.

Don
_The Nehor
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Post by _The Nehor »

Nibley's insights on doctrine and his skill in explaining them always impressed me much more than his linguistic and scholarly gifts.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
_marg

?

Post by _marg »

Gadianton wrote:Ok, first off, yeah, I post here.


Under what other name do you post as, here?
_DonBradley
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Post by _DonBradley »

The Nehor wrote:Nibley's insights on doctrine and his skill in explaining them always impressed me much more than his linguistic and scholarly gifts.


However much I may disagree with much of his output as a scholar, I see a great many things to admire in Hugh Nibley. Having read some of the profound, articulate, and beautiful letters he wrote to his mother at the age of 15--things I would feel pleased to have written today, I have no doubt that the man's innate intelligence was far greater than my own. He had a capacious intellect, read omnivorously, was a true polymath, was an innovator, seemed entirely unburdened with ego, was a trenchant cultural observer and social critic, and, in my few experiences with him (including calling him on the phone with questions when I was an 18 year old boy), was as helpful, kindly, and unpretentious as a person can be.

Don
_Blixa
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Post by _Blixa »

Hi ho, Gad! I'm your old friend the "actual cultural theorist"!

I have many thoughts on Nibley and will post them later. I have no idea what his mentality was or could have been, but judging purely on those written works of his that I've read, the emperor had a small wardrobe.
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered with/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
_The Dude
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Re: Nibley -- Again

Post by _The Dude »

Gadianton wrote:Ok, first off, yeah, I post here. It's just a matter of pride and self-deception that I didn't register this name or "Sidewinder" because see, I have this issue. Dramatic final posts. I exited rather dramatically a year ago and haven't quite been able to own up to the fact that I started lurking, and then posting. Though, in my defense, not nearly as much as I used to. Life has settled down a bit, so, why not enjoy things I like to do. Since most of my associates are already in the know on my hypocrisy, might as well just own up to the rest and be done with it.


Yay! Woo-hoo! Gadianton is back!!!!!!
Awesome, awesome, awesome. This makes my day.

So what name have you been posting under? Hopefully not "A Light In The Darkness". ;)
"And yet another little spot is smoothed out of the echo chamber wall..." Bond
_harmony
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Re: Nibley -- Again

Post by _harmony »

Gadianton wrote:Ok, first off, yeah, I post here. It's just a matter of pride and self-deception that I didn't register this name or "Sidewinder" because see, I have this issue. Dramatic final posts. I exited rather dramatically a year ago and haven't quite been able to own up to the fact that I started lurking, and then posting. Though, in my defense, not nearly as much as I used to. Life has settled down a bit, so, why not enjoy things I like to do. Since most of my associates are already in the know on my hypocrisy, might as well just own up to the rest and be done with it.


Welcome home, Gad. :-)

Nibley's work reminds me a lot of Immanuel Velikovsky's. Velikovsky was also a genius and had a knack for synthesizing volumes upon volumes of ancient lore into the most outrageous hypotheses imaginable. Nibley was an Enigma because he had these rare abilities whereby he could commit half the protologia, or rather half the BYU library to memory. He's not an Enigma because of his actual contributions to the scholarly world.


Nibley was a rare bird who loved words, academia, and the church. He allowed his great intelligence to be used not for the betterment of mankind in general, but to push the agenda of the LDS church. Just think what he might have done, had he not spent the majority of his adult life defending ancient and not-so-ancient myths.
_huckelberry
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Post by _huckelberry »

Gad is back, I am embarressed, I find myself still here. Am I glad to see Gadiantons name merely to cover my own discomforte at finding myself still here. Utlm...

Well I enjoyed Gad posts.

Subject, Nibley, My own world view preferences are so different than his I can make no objective comments. I find his writing revolting I am sorry to say. If any love him my apologies for mentioning my own personal tastes in connection with a person who to my knowledge is a good and intelligent man.

He provided a bit of assistance to me for leaving the LDS church. I still feel I owe him a bit of thanks for that. I still find apologists far more helpful for that than antimormon writing. The latter seem better suited to keeping Mormons in. In fact I wonder if the church doesn't pay public enemies. Well that is a silly conspiracy theory.

There are skeptics of Mormon faith who I do not include in the group of antimormonstuff alluded to above. Some post on these boards.
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