DiscussMormonism.com

Here are some thoughts related to the recent exchange between me and others here on MDB:

Faith, to me is a mechanism used to gain favor over someone else deployed by someone or several people. In the latter, these are called organized religions. This can be used for good or ill but in my book anytime someone asserts belief as truth, even unknowingly, that persons character is in question. Proper critical thinking skills, when not used to discern useful patterns of thought and behavior is a waste of time and effort.

In the case of religion, the use of faith for ill is more punctuated than the use for good and teh bad outweighs the good. I don't care how many blankets you knit for refugees. Good for you. Why did it take religion for you to be altruistic in the first place? I do truly see the good that some religions do but a sense of community or a palette of supplies to the impoverished does not justify belief to me. Instead it is usually faith causing the need for the airdrop of food to the impoverished, as a machete wielding scumbag has faith that Allah did not want said refugee to live in the first place to use a specific example. What we see is faith creating problems and faith making an attempt at affecting faiths problems. Its just futile, a hamster running on a wheel.

Every Atheist is an island, by design. Why the faithers insist on comparing me to other atheists/agnostics is beyond me. I can only speculate that they believe Atheists are a church and that we have official doctrine that others share and therefore they can rise up dissent to push me back and . All in all though this was an attempt at isolating me from others as is the usual method of attack for a faither to differentiate a believer from their belief, thus creating an atmosphere of hypocrisy. Its OK faithers, I understand that you are unable to see my side of the fence and insist on approaching me as if I am affiliated with any of the other atheists/agnostics here and elsewhere. let me take this opportunity to state again for the benefit of the faithers that there is no such thing as the church of atheism, atheist doctrine or official anything dealing with Atheism or non belief in imaginary omnipresent beings.

To those who have attacked me for my skepticism concerning an unseen, untestable deity, I submit that your experience is limited to a false understanding on how the world operates. Its magic to you on why good or ill comes across your path, as God sees fit to deal out your fate. Instead of accepting a metaphysical view of life I take a practical, scientific approach. I do not accept things that have little to no evidence. The existence of a personal god, especially a Judeochristian god is laughable. The act of belief in said deity boggles my mind as to how I once accepted that there is an unseen force that influences my emotions. The same seed of faith that was expressed in the mind of Jim Jones, Joseph Smith, the pope and David Koresh lives in teh mind of even the most liberal of christians. It is high time we give up this destructive idea just as we eliminated the idea that santa clause keeps a list and checks it twice at a young age.

These ramblings brought to you by the act of work avoidance

Well, I don't hate you. I agree with much of what you say.

Course, I don't hate anyone one these boards, given that I don't really know anyone on these boards. I sometimes hate what people write, but that's not even close to the same thing. We are not what we think, nor what we write. Upon reflection, I think it's kind of sad that people label themselves something that speaks to what they believe (atheist, Mormon, christian, etc), as though what they believe makes them the person that they are... but I digress...

Here's the thing, Merc: what are your goals when you post? Off the top of my head, I can think of three main goals anyone might have for posting to this sort of message board:

1. They are trying to debate/persuade
2. They are ranting to exorcise whatever emotions they might be feeling
3. They just want to converse with people they enjoy reading / post for play and entertainment, so to speak

I tend to post some for the second reason but mostly for the third. Never for the first. That one (in my opinion) is simply useless.

So if you're posting for reason #1, then your delivery might need some work. I already agree with much of what you say, like I mentioned, but you're preaching to the choir. I can certainly see how it might not be well received by those whom it appears you're trying to convince.

If you're posting for #2, then continue on. I think you're doing this admirably (I really mean that).

If it's for #3 as well, that's cool too. I totally get it.

In the case of religion, the use of faith for ill is more punctuated than the use for good and teh bad outweighs the good.

This is a matter of perspective; it isn’t a matter of fact. I thought you were only interested in scientific fact that can be rationally deduced through experiments? Where is your evidence that religion is more bad than good? I have already demonstrated that percentage wise, atheist dictators have been far more destructive and murderous throughout history.

I don't care how many blankets you knit for refugees.

That should go without saying. You’ve made it clear you believe all theists are lower than you on the evolutionary totem pole. You must feel really special. What I don’t understand is how you can sit there and act all surprised as if no one is supposed to be offended at this.

Why did it take religion for you to be altruistic in the first place?

Who is “you”? Who said religion is required for altruism?

I do truly see the good that some religions do but a sense of community or a palette of supplies to the impoverished does not justify belief to me.

Then don’t believe. You seemed to be so upset that so many intelligent people don’t follow you as you blow your atheism flute. This sounds like a personal problem to me.

Instead it is usually faith causing the need for the airdrop of food to the impoverished, as a machete wielding scumbag has faith that Allah did not want said refugee to live in the first place to use a specific example. What we see is faith creating problems and faith making an attempt at affecting faiths problems. Its just futile, a hamster running on a wheel.

You’re suggestion that the good religion does is only an attempt to balance the bad it has caused, is remarkably stupid. You’re picking and choosing the aspects of religion that suit your anti-theism agenda. I’d love to pick it apart and discuss this with you but somehow I imagine you’ll ignore my post again and start up three more anti-religion threads while pretending to be a victim of something. Apparently, you’re only interested in offering a lecture series.

I can only speculate that they believe Atheists are a church and that we have official doctrine that others share and therefore they can rise up dissent to push me back and.

With most atheists I know, I have no problems at all. In fact, I’d venture to say 99% of them are pretty cool. But what you’re doing is making atheists look bad by playing the hypocrite. You’re no different from a Tammy Faye or Billy Graham. You condemn the “other” just the same as they do.

All in all though this was an attempt at isolating me from others as is the usual method of attack for a faither to differentiate a believer from their belief, thus creating an atmosphere of hypocrisy.

So now you’re a victim? After claiming to be more advanced as a human being? Oh the irony.

I understand that you are unable to see my side of the fence and insist on approaching me as if I am affiliated with any of the other atheists/agnostics here and elsewhere. let me take this opportunity to state again for the benefit of the faithers that there is no such thing as the church of atheism, atheist doctrine or official anything dealing with Atheism or non belief in imaginary omnipresent beings.

Personally, I don’t care what you call it. It is an agenda driven ideology nonetheless.

To those who have attacked me for my skepticism concerning an unseen, untestable deity, I submit that your experience is limited to a false understanding on how the world operates.

I doubt anyone has attacked you, but again, I find it highly laughable that you would try to play victim after your several arrogant comments that place the vast majority of humanity beneath you. Even now you continue to ridicule the belief of others. Having fun are you? It is one thing not to agree with others, but it is another to actively attack them for simply being different. This is essentially what you’re doing. It burns you up to see so many humans disagree with you. You can’t handle it. Even though you claim to have science on your side, we all know this is just a smoke and mirror game, as you have yet to validate any of your points through science. You snag theories and then expound upon them illicitly using yoru own anti-religion rhetoric. You remind me of that ridiculous film, "What the bleep do we know?" That stupid movie is a best seller here in Brazil, and the psychologist at the local clinic here actually thought it was legitimate science. But it was essentially another religion trying to use science to lambast all organized religion.

Its magic to you on why good or ill comes across your path, as God sees fit to deal out your fate.

You clearly don’t understand much about religion. Most religions I am familiar with accept the fact that God gives mankind free will, and that he doesn’t normally interefere with our daily lives. So to use the evil of the world as evidence against God’s existence, is an timeless argument that really carries no weight with most theists.

Instead of accepting a metaphysical view of life I take a practical, scientific approach.

No you don’t. You snag theories from certain scientists and then leap to illicit conclusions, all the while claiming to be “scientific.” Again, you have no clue what you are talking about. Very little of what you blather is scientific, while the rest is polemic fluff.

I do not accept things that have little to no evidence.

Yes you do, but you simply refuse to acknowledge it because that would disrupt your straw man argument against theists.

The existence of a personal god, especially a Judeochristian god is laughable.

And that is OK for you to believe this. But to you, it is not OK for others to disagree.

The act of belief in said deity boggles my mind as to how I once accepted that there is an unseen force that influences my emotions.

It doesn’t boggle my mind as to why you don’t get it. This is mainly because your rendition of religion in your various threads hardly represents an accurate picture, so you're operating in ignorance. You set out with your anti-religion agenda in hand, and you won’t let any facts get in your way.

The same seed of faith that was expressed in the mind of Jim Jones, Joseph Smith, the pope and David Koresh lives in teh mind of even the most liberal of christians. It is high time we give up this destructive idea just as we eliminated the idea that santa clause keeps a list and checks it twice at a young age.

Can’t you come up with something more original than the usual bigoted atheistic lines we see on the most anti-religion forums?

I don't hate you Mercury.

But if you have opinions you shouldn't be surprised when other people have theirs.

Dart, Book of Mormon and I are having a fruitful discussion. Can you take a minute from being a blathering hypocrite and accept my beliefs? Besides, if you don't accept me for who I am you are nothing but a hypocrite.

See the rub? I doubt it.

Mercury wrote:Dart, Book of Mormon and I are having a fruitful discussion. Can you take a minute from being a blathering hypocrite and accept my beliefs? Besides, if you don't accept me for who I am you are nothing but a hypocrite.

See the rub? I doubt it.

I don't believe you can ever have a "fruitful discussion". My hat goes off to Kevin for even replying. And look at your reply. All you can do is call him a "blathering hypocrite". Very fruitful, indeed. What, you want the discussion to be only between you and Book of Mormon? What a waste of time and space you are.

barrelomonkeys wrote:I don't hate you Mercury.

But if you have opinions you shouldn't be surprised when other people have theirs.

heres the thing. I'm pretty straightforward. This is not a Thursday night debate class. Its a sown and at times dirty discussion board. part of it is venting, (I think GIMR has proven this dramatically), part lighhearted discussion and part serious discussion. i don't hold anything back but at the same time I am not setting out to be a dick.

I do not think some of the christians on this and other boards truly see the implications that their system of belief brings with their other opinions of supposed peace and love. Instead its all love one another and in the next breath they are waving a "god hates fags" sign. To be christian, even a liberal commie leftie christian implies that you believe everyone but those who believe as you do are going to dwell with satan in hellfire.

How can christians be smug and I can't?

Mercury wrote:Dart, Book of Mormon and I are having a fruitful discussion. Can you take a minute from being a blathering hypocrite and accept my beliefs? Besides, if you don't accept me for who I am you are nothing but a hypocrite.

See the rub? I doubt it.

Dart made some valid points and you simply are ignoring him. Why?

Ray A wrote:

Mercury wrote:Dart, Book of Mormon and I are having a fruitful discussion. Can you take a minute from being a blathering hypocrite and accept my beliefs? Besides, if you don't accept me for who I am you are nothing but a hypocrite.

See the rub? I doubt it.

I don't believe you can ever have a "fruitful discussion". My hat goes off to Kevin for even replying. And look at your reply. All you can do is call him a "blathering hypocrite". Very fruitful, indeed. What, you want the discussion to be only between you and Book of Mormon? What a waste of time and space you are.

And yet here you are posting in reply to me. Geez ray, have anything better to do than dedicate a few minutes to a waste of time and space?

Jason Bourne wrote:

Mercury wrote:Dart, Book of Mormon and I are having a fruitful discussion. Can you take a minute from being a blathering hypocrite and accept my beliefs? Besides, if you don't accept me for who I am you are nothing but a hypocrite.

See the rub? I doubt it.

Dart made some valid points and you simply are ignoring him. Why?

Because its all over the place. and who the hell says I am not going to reply when I get some freaking time!

Once again the dogpile continues and the wailing and gnashing of teeth continue the DEMAND for a reply. His points were valid if taken into the improper context he purposefully framed it in.

I could give the same reasons others have given for ignoring me and they would be just as valid.