What to do with past quotes from leaders about cumorah?

[_Polygamy Porter]

Look at the quotes from many past leaders concerning the location of the Book of Mormon Cumorah.

Mike has a great list on his site.

Are all of these simply the personal opinions of these men?

If so, why hasn't there been revisions to these books to indicate this?

In my experience, most chapel Mormons believe the NY cumorah is the same one in the Book of Mormon story.

[_rcrocket]

What's your point. Almost all members of the church accept those quotes, as do I, and reject an LGT theory which would put Cumorah elsewhere.

No general authority has ever supported the LGT theory, at least which would reposition Cumorah, except for perhaps Elder Oaks who is open to the suggestion. But I think this little detail shows the freedom permitted members to discuss and promote different point of views and the Book of Mormon's historical basis.

rcrocket

[_Polygamy Porter]

What's your point. Almost all members of the church accept those quotes, as do I, and reject an LGT theory which would put Cumorah elsewhere.

No general authority has ever supported the LGT theory, at least which would reposition Cumorah, except for perhaps Elder Oaks who is open to the suggestion. But I think this little detail shows the freedom permitted members to discuss and promote different point of views and the Book of Mormon's historical basis.

rcrocket

If you believe all of those supposed battles from the Book of Mormon story happened at the NY Cumorah, then please show us where is the evidence??

Only a fool would believe 2,230,000 men died in battle around that hill in NY, especially when there isn't a single shred of evidence.

[_Polygamy Porter]

I can hear the chirping crickets around rcrocket's desk...

[_rcrocket]

The high-population count theory explained in Charles Mann, 1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus is the source for my position about high populations in the New York mounds area. There has also been a Discovery Channel documentary explaining the high population count theory for New England.

I also note that no less an personage as Nathaniel Philbrick supports the high population count theory for New England in Philbrick, Mayflower: A Story of Courage, Community, and War (2007).

This theory both explains the disappearance of the burial mounds, the population that would have been expected among the Natives of the area, what happened to them, their warfare and sophistication. I think it is probably a minority theory but until Teddy Roosevelt's granddaugther, an anthropologist, started voicing the theory in the 1940s, nobody believed it.

rcrocket

[_ozemc]

What's your point. Almost all members of the church accept those quotes, as do I, and reject an LGT theory which would put Cumorah elsewhere.

No general authority has ever supported the LGT theory, at least which would reposition Cumorah, except for perhaps Elder Oaks who is open to the suggestion. But I think this little detail shows the freedom permitted members to discuss and promote different point of views and the Book of Mormon's historical basis.

rcrocket

If you believe all of those supposed battles from the Book of Mormon story happened at the NY Cumorah, then please show us where is the evidence??

Only a fool would believe 2,230,000 men died in battle around that hill in NY, especially when there isn't a single shred of evidence.

You know, that is something that has intrigued me.

I haven't read all of the Book of Mormon, but with having a TBM wife, I have read quite a bit of it.

I always wondered where all the people went?
Surely there must be mass graves somewhere?
What about all the trash?
Kind of gross, but where were their bathrooms located?
What about all the weaponry?
Are there any sort of buildings left behind?
What about fires?

Surely, there must be some sort of physical evidence left from these events?

I mean, we know where things happened in the Middle East, Turkey, etc. because we can find the evidence, from many, many thousand of years ago. We've found evidence of people that lived on this continent from over 10,000 years ago.

We can't even find stuff from less than 2000 years ago in a small part of NY state?

I'm sorry, but that just plain doesn't make sense.

[_Polygamy Porter]

rcrocket, that was weeeak.

Let us keep this right near Cumorah, the one in NY and about the battles. I'm sure they did not do a good job of cleaning up everything and piling it into a big trash heap.

Why not have BYU go and sift all of the soil around it? Down to a depth of 10 feet should be sufficient.

[_ozemc]

The high-population count theory explained in Charles Mann, 1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus is the source for my position about high populations in the New York mounds area. There has also been a Discovery Channel documentary explaining the high population count theory for New England.

I also note that no less an personage as Nathaniel Philbrick supports the high population count theory for New England in Philbrick, Mayflower: A Story of Courage, Community, and War (2007).

This theory both explains the disappearance of the burial mounds, the population that would have been expected among the Natives of the area, what happened to them, their warfare and sophistication. I think it is probably a minority theory but until Teddy Roosevelt's granddaugther, an anthropologist, started voicing the theory in the 1940s, nobody believed it.

rcrocket

Would you please explain the "high population theory", as I have not read, nor heard of this book?

[_Bond...James Bond]

I'm sorry, but that just plain doesn't make sense.

It doesn't have to make sense....it's Mormonism. Being obsurd is it's bread-and-butter.

[_rcrocket]

What's your point. Almost all members of the church accept those quotes, as do I, and reject an LGT theory which would put Cumorah elsewhere.

No general authority has ever supported the LGT theory, at least which would reposition Cumorah, except for perhaps Elder Oaks who is open to the suggestion. But I think this little detail shows the freedom permitted members to discuss and promote different point of views and the Book of Mormon's historical basis.

rcrocket

If you believe all of those supposed battles from the Book of Mormon story happened at the NY Cumorah, then please show us where is the evidence??

Only a fool would believe 2,230,000 men died in battle around that hill in NY, especially when there isn't a single shred of evidence.

You know, that is something that has intrigued me.

I haven't read all of the Book of Mormon, but with having a TBM wife, I have read quite a bit of it.

I always wondered where all the people went?
Surely there must be mass graves somewhere?
What about all the trash?
Kind of gross, but where were their bathrooms located?
What about all the weaponry?
Are there any sort of buildings left behind?
What about fires?

Surely, there must be some sort of physical evidence left from these events?

I mean, we know where things happened in the Middle East, Turkey, etc. because we can find the evidence, from many, many thousand of years ago. We've found evidence of people that lived on this continent from over 10,000 years ago.

We can't even find stuff from less than 2000 years ago in a small part of NY state?

I'm sorry, but that just plain doesn't make sense.

The book 1491 explains that huge amounts of this material were excavated from mounds, but unfortunately almost all of it done by farmers plowing their fields level. Some of it made its way into museums. The book "The History of Tennessee, from its earliest settlemet to the present time," written by a justice in the Tennessee Supreme Court and an amateur archeologist, documents weaponry and iron implements (well, so he claims; he says the evidence is there but it rusted away) removed from mounds in Tennessee, along with evidence of copper or bronze armour. He also documents the finds of coins. The book was written in 1820, and is cited by the Tanners as evidence that Joseph Smith had some source for his theories (there is not evidence it was in a library in New York). The book is available as a reprint on Amazon.

But, the interesting point of this 1820 book is that it explains the state of the science before professionals took over; farmers plowed the mounds and if they found anything interesting, they might try to recover it and sell it.

Today, of the tens of thousands of burial mounds that were once extant, there are only a handful. Driving through the area, I have come across tourist signs to a mound here and there, and the guideposts indicated that the one or two survivors are examples of the tens of thousands which used to exist.

rcrocket