I found this quote on a Relief Society handout that my TBM wife brought home from church. The lesson was about following the living prophet and the quote was from Gordon B. Hinckley from 1991. I found the entire article here, and here is some context for the quote:
How thankful we ought to be, how thankful we are, for a prophet to counsel us in words of divine wisdom as we walk our paths in these complex and difficult times. The solid assurance we carry in our hearts, the conviction that God will make His will known to His children through His recognized servants, is the real basis of our faith and activity. We either have a prophet or we have nothing; and having a prophet, we have everything.
This is one of the big problems I have with the church, but I want to know what TBMs think of this quote. In the LDS church is it really a living prophet or nothing? If so, does that not put most of the emphasis on the prophet rather than Jesus? What would members do without a living prophet, or the so called "authority"? According to Hinckley we would have nothing. But could people not just worship god directly, or through the savior? Could they not seek out answers on their own? Why must there be a human "authority" on the earth?
"We of this Church do not rely on any man-made statement concerning the nature of Deity. Our knowledge comes directly from the personal experience of Joseph Smith." - Gordon B. Hinckley
"It's wrong to criticize leaders of the Mormon Church even if the criticism is true." - Dallin H. Oaks
Well, since God doesn't actually exist, he doesn't seem to speak to most people directly. It seems that this non-existent God requires a human being to stand up and proclaim that he has seen this God, and that this God deputized him as his right-hand man on earth, and that what this man (or woman) says, is really like God saying it, and we all need to obey him. Oh yeah, and we all need to start paying him money, because God needs money to build up his kingdom on earth, and this man, who claims to be God's representative on earth, is also the steward of all of God's money on earth. Yeah. Something like that.
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen
SatanWasSetUp wrote:I found this quote on a Relief Society handout that my TBM wife brought home from church. The lesson was about following the living prophet and the quote was from Gordon B. Hinckley from 1991. I found the entire article here, and here is some context for the quote:
How thankful we ought to be, how thankful we are, for a prophet to counsel us in words of divine wisdom as we walk our paths in these complex and difficult times. The solid assurance we carry in our hearts, the conviction that God will make His will known to His children through His recognized servants, is the real basis of our faith and activity. We either have a prophet or we have nothing; and having a prophet, we have everything.
This is one of the big problems I have with the church, but I want to know what TBMs think of this quote. In the LDS church is it really a living prophet or nothing? If so, does that not put most of the emphasis on the prophet rather than Jesus? What would members do without a living prophet, or the so called "authority"? According to Hinckley we would have nothing. But could people not just worship god directly, or through the savior? Could they not seek out answers on their own? Why must there be a human "authority" on the earth?
Really, why must there be? The prophet system doesn't work well and it is extremely vulnerable to abuse. It's a dysfunctional God who would continue to put prophets on the earth to be either murdered or mostly ignored. Insanity is when you keep doing the same thing thinking that it will turn out differently. I believe that God will tell us directly what we need to know for ourselves (and it will never involve instruction/assistance for someone else or violence against someone else) and it won't deal with lost keys either.
Some problem with the quote. Many people have survived in eras with no Church and no established Prophets according to our record.
We need the Messiah, the Prophet is a bonus. Like all things if you focus on the Prophet too much you will lose sight of what is important and probably lose everything. Joseph taught that all other doctrine is the spokes of a wheel with the Atonement at the center. Losing the center destroys people.
If you don't believe in God a Prophet is by necessity at best an idealistic fool and at worst a diabolic tyrant. I think this is intentional. It's why it still bugs me when people try to tell me Jesus was a great moral teacher. The man went around claiming to be God!!!! At that point you're either telling the truth or you're a dangerous lunatic. I don't think God likes middle ground, he gives us so little to stand on.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
This is going to be big news to FAIR, who all seem to think that they can guide themselves and feel free to sell out their prophets all the time.
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.
LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.
truth dancer wrote:Relief Society handouts, VT articles in the Ensign, and quotes by the prophet are just opinion.
;-)
~dancer~
The problem with God speaking to us in a flawed language through flawed individuals. Use the middle man as you can but there is a legitimate end-run in the Church hierarchy. The CEO is willing to talk to all of us one on one and can clarify the memos we're getting from middle management.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
I think a Prophet has a function. However I'm with Moses saying that we should all be Prophets. I listen at General Conference and get what I can. I generally learn more in 20 minutes of prayer than in 10 hours of Conference though. However from what I hear most people either can't, won't, or are scared to pray like that.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
The Nehor wrote:Some problem with the quote. Many people have survived in eras with no Church and no established Prophets according to our record.
We need the Messiah, the Prophet is a bonus. Like all things if you focus on the Prophet too much you will lose sight of what is important and probably lose everything. Joseph taught that all other doctrine is the spokes of a wheel with the Atonement at the center. Losing the center destroys people.
Adding on a bunch of spokes when there should only be a center doesn't help people much either.
If you don't believe in God a Prophet is by necessity at best an idealistic fool and at worst a diabolic tyrant. I think this is intentional. It's why it still bugs me when people try to tell me Jesus was a great moral teacher. The man went around claiming to be God!!!! At that point you're either telling the truth or you're a dangerous lunatic. I don't think God likes middle ground, he gives us so little to stand on.
Oh, there is so much middle ground. Religionists are just hellbent to take it away from themselves. Jesus was a God in the same way you and I and all the rest of us are Gods, the only difference is in the degree to which he understood and experienced God, but that idea was 99.99% lost by the time the New Testament was written and assembled, much less when Joseph Smith restored ego teachings instead of Jesus.