A review of the Book of Abraham Project's JSCOM

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_CaliforniaKid
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A review of the Book of Abraham Project's JSCOM

Post by _CaliforniaKid »

William V. Smith of the Book of Abraham Project has produced a Joseph Smith Commentary to the Book of Abraham. Here are some thoughts I had while reading the book:

The fifth appendix to this book (and also some of the introductory material) is a heaping helping of hypocrisy and ad hominem. (There's an alliteration to make the Backyard Professor proud.) Some examples:

1) We're informed that Larson is "confused" because he can't make up his mind what he thinks of "long-time critic and insurance salesman" Edward Ashment.
2) We're also told that Joseph Smith's scholarly critics and his religious critics (apparently mutually exclusive categories for Smith) both believe that "there are no such persons as 'prophets'." I suspect this would be news to quite a few of Mormonism's "religious critics."
3) Smith complains that critics "engage in various speculations about the psychology of Mormons." Later he tells us that

Joseph Smith's critics do not base their objections to him on the book of Abraham. Those real objections are an entirely different and often unnamed (in the context of the book of Abraham) set of complaints. For example Dale Morgan's statement, "With my point of view on God, I am incapable of accepting the claims of Joseph Smith and the Mormons, be they however so convincing. If God does not exist, how can Joseph Smith's story have any possible validity? I will look everywhere for explanations except to the ONE explanation that is the position of the Church" [as quoted by Gary F. Novak, FRB, 8 no.1 (1996) p. 147, emphasis added.]


4) He says of Josiah Quincy's recollection (that Joseph Smith identified Abraham's signature on the papyrus), "it is clear that Quincy was exaggerating for effect. Another diarist present at the same interview tells us that Joseph Smith made no such claim." For Smith, Charles Francis Adams' silence apparently becomes an actual negation of Quincy's statement.
5) We're told that Wesley P. Walters was a "hired gun." Tanner and Marquardt are dismissed as "lapsed Mormons."
6) The entire Kirtland Egyptian Papers project is blamed on Warren Parrish (which is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard).
7) All diary entries which have Smith working on the Grammar or speaking positively about it are fabricated by Joseph's evil scribes, in a conspiracy involving at least Parrish, Phelps, and Cowdery. Every effort is made to discredit these men as dishonest apostates.

Examples could be multiplied, but I think that should suffice to make my point. The guy quite frankly got almost everything wrong with respect to historical material on the KEP and papyri. Yet he has the brass to tell us,

Here we must emphasize for the benefit of those critics of Joseph Smith still stuck on the EAG, or KEPA#1, that Joseph Smith did not write them and that it has been clearly shown that the text of the book of Abraham was laid down long before KEPA#1 (or2) or the EAG. Furthermore, it is clear that Smith himself put no stock in the EAG. Critics must realize that to continue to stonewall on these issues leaves them open to the worst charge of all: the obfuscation they claim for Joseph Smith! Once and for all, the EAG and KEPA#1 are not relevant to the source of the book of Abraham and Joseph Smith never thought the book arose from the little breathing permit. With the additional evidence that the book of Abraham text was hours worth of reading in its ms form in 1838, this die-hard claim of critics assumes a position somewhere outside the circle of wishful hoping. Like librarian Dale Morgan, any explanation must be accepted before Smith's.


The whole book actually isn't as bad as this appendix, by the way. He does very poorly at seeing the glaring flaws in Gee's and Nibley's arguments, and in some cases he actually attempts to expand upon those arguments. But that said, he does a great job connecting elements in the Book of Abraham to Joseph Smith's contemporary teachings, especially as recorded in his sermons and other scriptures. It at least makes for interesting and thought-provoking reading. But don't pick this book up unless you're ready to get hopping mad during some portions.

By the way, Smith refers to Gee's Seyffarth inference 8 times in the book. (For the lowdown on Seyffarth see here.) It is taken to be "very strong evidence" for the missing papyrus theory, and is even adduced as evidence that the missing text was the Book of Abraham. Like "the one that got away," this is a fish story that gets bigger and bigger over the course of the book.

PAGE 14: it is not possible to logically affirm that the missing portion does not contain the book of Abraham (in fact, an 1856 observer noted that the roll that once contained the breathing text, or at least Facsimile No. 3, continues with the notation "the beginning of the book of . . ."). [Gee, History, 1999.]

PAGE 17: there is very strong evidence that Joseph had other papyri and indeed that the Hor papyrus with Facsimile No. 1 contained another book [1856 entry in Appendix IV].

Page 155: Now, the original of Facsimile No. 3 is, based on observations of Gustavus Seyffarth in 1856, to be on the same roll of papyrus as P. Joseph Smith 1 and the breathings text, but that this roll was a very long one and following Fac. 3, contains words to the effect "the beginning of the book of . . . " [conclusion of the sentence unknown].

Page 159: An 1856 observation of what was apparently the roll from which Fac. 1 was cut shows it did contain Facsimile No. 3 and another text with the opening line "the beginning of the book of . . ." and was much longer than the breathing permit hypothesized by Klaus Baer [which in any case was possessed by Abel Combs at that point]. [See Appendix V, n50.; Gee, History, 1999.]

APPENDIX IV, PAGE 206: Gustavus Seyffarth, an expert in observing, if not in translating Egyptian script, sees the rolls and the Hor papyrus is observed to contain another book besides the book of breathings text.

APPENDIX V, PAGE 224: Indeed in 1856, an expert who examined part of the papyri had by Joseph Smith shows that the breathing permit was merely a small text attached to a larger one whose title is unknown (see JSCOM appendix IV).

APPENDIX V, PAGE 229: Was the book of Abraham contained on such a portion? Evidence points this way. See Appendix IV of JSCOM, under date 1856.


-CK
_Sethbag
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Post by _Sethbag »

Oh well, whatever helps him sleep at night. Thanks to a lot of your threads and comments in other threads, I know this guy is so full of crap it's coming out of his ears, though.
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen
_CaliforniaKid
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Post by _CaliforniaKid »

Here's another little gem from p. 231 of the book:

Finally, we should note that Thompson, while a former
active Mormon, no longer accepts the historical nature of scripture or the divinity of Jesus
[Peterson, 1996]. The rather amazing thing is that he and some others are willing to sell out to
questionable speculations on the historicity of texts, particularly to the work of various
minimalists critical of any position, which turns out sympathetic to believers. His dancing around
the issue of a historical Abraham is a red herring. Thompson has already discarded even the
possibility that such a person ever existed, much less that he might have had the experiences
rehearsed in the book of Abraham.


And another that's just absurd:

it is clear that Joseph Smith is correct about the characters above hands or heads,
they do contain the usual Egyptian names for the figures
: Osiris for the seated figure,
possibly Isis or Hathor for the figure behind the seated person, Maat for the Ostrich
feathered figure, Anubis for the black figure, Hor (to whom the papyrus probably
"belonged") between Maat and Anubis.

p. 156, emphasis added


This is the kind of spin that could make anyone dizzy.

-CK
_Who Knows
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Post by _Who Knows »

CaliforniaKid wrote:
it is clear that Joseph Smith is correct about the characters above hands or heads,
they do contain the usual Egyptian names for the figures
: Osiris for the seated figure,
possibly Isis or Hathor for the figure behind the seated person, Maat for the Ostrich
feathered figure, Anubis for the black figure, Hor (to whom the papyrus probably
"belonged") between Maat and Anubis.


Wow, talk about twisting words. Is dishonesty too strong a word here?
WK: "Joseph Smith asserted that the Book of Mormon peoples were the original inhabitants of the americas"
Will Schryver: "No, he didn’t." 3/19/08
Still waiting for Will to back this up...
_Blixa
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Post by _Blixa »

CaliforniaKid wrote:
it is clear that Joseph Smith is correct about the characters above hands or heads,
they do contain the usual Egyptian names for the figures
: Osiris for the seated figure,
possibly Isis or Hathor for the figure behind the seated person, Maat for the Ostrich
feathered figure, Anubis for the black figure, Hor (to whom the papyrus probably
"belonged") between Maat and Anubis.

p. 156, emphasis added




Oh wow. That is just ... beyond belief...
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
_CaliforniaKid
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Post by _CaliforniaKid »

Yeah, my eyes just about bugged out of my head when I read that.
_Jersey Girl
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Post by _Jersey Girl »

Just when I thought i was sick of the Book of Abraham....

CaliforniaKid wrote:Here's another little gem from p. 231 of the book:

Finally, we should note that Thompson, while a former
active Mormon, no longer accepts the historical nature of scripture or the divinity of Jesus
[Peterson, 1996]. The rather amazing thing is that he and some others are willing to sell out to
questionable speculations on the historicity of texts, particularly to the work of various
minimalists critical of any position, which turns out sympathetic to believers. His dancing around
the issue of a historical Abraham is a red herring. Thompson has already discarded even the
possibility that such a person ever existed, much less that he might have had the experiences
rehearsed in the book of Abraham.


Jersey Girl: Isn't the above simply a personal attack?

And another that's just absurd:

it is clear that Joseph Smith is correct about the characters above hands or heads,
they do contain the usual Egyptian names for the figures
: Osiris for the seated figure,
possibly Isis or Hathor for the figure behind the seated person, Maat for the Ostrich
feathered figure, Anubis for the black figure, Hor (to whom the papyrus probably
"belonged") between Maat and Anubis.

p. 156, emphasis added


This is the kind of spin that could make anyone dizzy.

-CK


Jersey Girl: I am not familiar with ANY statements made by Joseph Smith that involve so much as a reference to Osiris/Isis/Hathor/Maat/ Anubis...


CFR!!!
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_Jersey Girl
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Post by _Jersey Girl »

Okay, forget being nice. Who produced this thing, CK? What's it for and who is the target audience? Are the quotes from Joseph Smith himself or are they done "in character"? How much sashaying around the truth and distortion do these "guys" own up to? Are these supposed to be scholars who've authored that piece?
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_CaliforniaKid
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Post by _CaliforniaKid »

Jersey Girl wrote:Okay, forget being nice. Who produced this thing, CK?


This was produced by William V. Smith of the Book of Abraham Project. Here's a link:

http://www.boap.org/

All the website says is that the BOAP is a non-profit org for research on the Book of Abraham. It seems to be run entirely by William V. Smith, who's a mathematics professor at BYU (which is funny given his attacks on "insurance salesman" Edward Ashment). But as he occasionally speaks in the first-person plural, there may be other people involved in the Project.

As I've read the JSCOM, I've noticed that certain statements made on the forums by Ben McGuire are taken almost verbatim from its pages. I'd guess he's either involved in the project or is a fan of it.

What's it for and who is the target audience?


It is unquestionably an apologetic work. Almost everything in it is aimed in one way or another at rebutting "the critics". But since the critics are hopeless (having already made up their minds, according to Smith), I can only guess that the audience is members of the church who might be struggling with doubts.

Are the quotes from Joseph Smith himself or are they done "in character"?


I'm not sure what you're asking. Several quoted in the OP were attributed to "Smith," but that was a reference to William V. Smith, not to Joseph Smith. Does that answer the question?

How much sashaying around the truth and distortion do these "guys" own up to? Are these supposed to be scholars who've authored that piece?


The only place that Smith "owns up to" any kind of weakness in his own position is on page 231:

For example, Stephen Thompson, "Egyptology and the Book of Abraham," Dialogue, A
Journal of Mormon Thought, Spring 1995, 143-160. Thompson also argues that Joseph Smith's
interpretations of the facsimiles are altogether at variance with current Egyptological
understanding. We feel that the evidence is equivocal, some supports Smith, some does not, and
that arguments from silence are not coercive as they seem to be for Thompson. Thompson's ideas
may be directly contrasted with our remarks here and also in the commentary. It should be noted
that his complaint that LDS scholars appeal to "3000 years of Egyptian religious iconography in
an attempt to find parallels which can be pushed prodded, squeezed, or linked, to attempt to justify
Joseph's interpretations" is really an unfair characterization but in fact it is precisely what the
Egyptians themselves did. With such a fragmentary source record, there is often no real alternative
to looking at sources from various periods.


On every other page Smith bleeds confidence. Note that this excerpt comes immediately before Smith launches the personal attack on Thompson that you commented about above.

-CK
_Paul Osborne

Post by _Paul Osborne »

I read the paper many years ago and was not impressed at all. I felt his work was highly offensive to the prophet Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdery, and others who worked with the prophet. He, along with Hugh Nibley trampled on the KEP just as the antis trample on the Book of Mormon. The scholars have become fools! They think they are so learned within their circles of education and love their credentials more than the truth. They love the praise of men. Beware of the scholars because they have become the pride of the LDS Church.

I tell you now I think some LDS people quote Hugh Nibley more than any prophet! And, Hugh Nibley was no prophet! So why are so many Latter-day Saints making Hugh Nibley their prophet? It is because they have been fooled by the clout of scholarship, which I suspect has become an abomination in the eyes of God. I really do think that the pride of Mormonism is rooted in the university. Their Book of Abraham apologetics is an abomination and an offence to God. They are well trained in their work and think they are doing a good service but in reality they are trampling all over things they don't understand and have put their trust in their own wisdom because of their worldly credentials. I will admit that the scholars have many talents and are indeed intelligent, but when it comes to common sense and things they can't understand, they can be so stupid.

Move over you scholars and let a simple man tell you how it is. Sit down you scholars and learn from a child.

Paul O
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