Impotence or Omnipotence. A Question about the Mormon God

[_Chad (Swedeboy) Spjut]

As an active Mormon, I was told that Christ and his Father could not be on earth doing everything that was necessary to move the kingdom along, such as baptisms, sealings, home teaching, and baking rolls for someone with tennis elbow and other such special projects.

As part of the Mormon god’s share the spiritual wealth program, I was given his power to do all that I could in his name to help the work along. Never mind the fact that I am just a man, the Mormon god needed my help and as a fully committed Morgbot I was willing to give it.

The very notion that the Mormon god needed our help, shows me how utterly impotent he really was. He needed my faith and work, or someone would not join his church as I served as a missionary, and if that was not enough I would also get the blame for those people not joining due to my slothful behavior or by losing the spirit by some imagined sin I had committed. He needed my faith and work in the temple or some of his kids would not make it back to him because I was too tired or lazy that day to get my arse into his temple. He needed my help to convince my non-Mormon neighbors that Mormons are nice, helpful folks so they would eventually join his church, and on and on.

In the early days of Mormonism, the literalistic thinkers believed it was their duty to help the impotent Mormon god out by fulfilling his prophecies. Marry the Indians in some naziesque “lebensborn” social experiment and make their offspring turn white and delightsome. Train the Indians in warfare so they can be used as the “battle-axe” of the Lard to assist the Mormon church in bringing down the United States government. Kill Governor Boggs because Smith prophesied he would die a horrible death. (They missed on that one; Boggs was only wounded and did not die from the assassin’s bullet. See Porter Rockwell for more information.) The Mormon god could never do things himself, or at least not fast enough or accurate enough for the likes of these rubes.

So what did this Mormon god, the ruler of the three heavens and multiple earths ever do himself? After all, it was his work I was supposedly doing, where was he in all of this? Procreating? Golf on the back nine of the Celestial Fields Country Club?

I’m tired. I was doing a lot of work for someone who did not do his share of the labor. So much for Omnipotence.

[_KimberlyAnn]

Chad, we know Mormon God isn't impotent, or else we wouldn't exist, now would we? ;)

It's nice to be free of the pressure of slaving for Mormon God, isn't it? I never could do enough for him. He always wanted more and more and more and damn was I exhausted!

KA

[_Doctor Steuss]

My parents have the power and ability to wipe my a**, yet for some reason they decided at one point that I needed to wipe my own a**.

So much for the power of parents.


"It is one of the most beautiful compensations of life, that no man can sincerely try to help another without helping himself." -Ralph Waldo Emerson

(I don't think G-d has asked us to help Him out for His benefit... I think it is for our own.)

[_Jason Bourne]

As an active Mormon, I was told that Christ and his Father could not be on earth doing everything that was necessary to move the kingdom along, such as baptisms, sealings, home teaching, and baking rolls for someone with tennis elbow and other such special projects.

As part of the Mormon god’s share the spiritual wealth program, I was given his power to do all that I could in his name to help the work along. Never mind the fact that I am just a man, the Mormon god needed my help and as a fully committed Morgbot I was willing to give it.

The very notion that the Mormon god needed our help, shows me how utterly impotent he really was. He needed my faith and work, or someone would not join his church as I served as a missionary, and if that was not enough I would also get the blame for those people not joining due to my slothful behavior or by losing the spirit by some imagined sin I had committed. He needed my faith and work in the temple or some of his kids would not make it back to him because I was too tired or lazy that day to get my arse into his temple. He needed my help to convince my non-Mormon neighbors that Mormons are nice, helpful folks so they would eventually join his church, and on and on.

In the early days of Mormonism, the literalistic thinkers believed it was their duty to help the impotent Mormon god out by fulfilling his prophecies. Marry the Indians in some naziesque “lebensborn” social experiment and make their offspring turn white and delightsome. Train the Indians in warfare so they can be used as the “battle-axe” of the Lard to assist the Mormon church in bringing down the United States government. Kill Governor Boggs because Smith prophesied he would die a horrible death. (They missed on that one; Boggs was only wounded and did not die from the assassin’s bullet. See Porter Rockwell for more information.) The Mormon god could never do things himself, or at least not fast enough or accurate enough for the likes of these rubes.

So what did this Mormon god, the ruler of the three heavens and multiple earths ever do himself? After all, it was his work I was supposedly doing, where was he in all of this? Procreating? Golf on the back nine of the Celestial Fields Country Club?

I’m tired. I was doing a lot of work for someone who did not do his share of the labor. So much for Omnipotence.

I think your view of what God needs and does not need in LDS doctrine was and is grossly distorted. To discuss this further though it would be useful to know what you think and believe about God at all, if anything.

[_KimberlyAnn]

My parents have the power and ability to wipe my a**, yet for some reason they decided at one point that I needed to wipe my own a**.

So much for the power of parents.


"It is one of the most beautiful compensations of life, that no man can sincerely try to help another without helping himself." -Ralph Waldo Emerson

(I don't think G-d has asked us to help Him out for His benefit... I think it is for our own.)

It's clear in the Bible and the Book of Mormon that God is omniscient. I was taught my whole life that God knew the end from the beginning and everything in between.

My question is, then, if God knows we're going to fail at so many things, why does he not care to intervene where He knows people need Him? God knows those babies in Darfur need help, he knows they're not going to get it, he knows they're going to be hacked to pieces, but he does NOTHING! NOTHING!!?? What use is God if he does nothing to prevent human tragedy when he has all the power necessary to do so? Because we humans can't get to those babies in Darfur fast enough then that's just their tough luck, I guess. God is going to sit on his hands and watch people get raped, tortured, and murdered, see them starve and hear them plead with him for food and drink, but he has the nerve to decline to assist them when it would be so easy for him to save them, feed them, heal them...

Where is God? What use is He anyway if He has the power to help but refuses?

And I swear, if Nehor or anyone else pops onto this thread spouting that crap about death being no big deal and just a step on to another life, then I'm going to go off on them, Goddammit! It's not them being hacked to pieces in Darfur, is it? Maybe being brutally chopped up by a machete is no big deal to them and their powerless God because they're not the ones feeling the knife's blade.

KA

[_Doctor Steuss]

KA,

Sometimes I think that G-d's role has much more to do in the next realm than this one. At least it seems to be the only thing that makes sense. If Sampson (or Rockwell) can be given a promise that they will never fall at the hands of enemies, then why is a similar promise kept from a scared little girl hiding in a closet at members of the SS rummage through the home. It is true that it really doesn’t make sense. But, at the same time, we have the power to intervene in small ways. Rather than blaming G-d, perhaps we should be blaming ourselves(?)



I often look at my own life and wonder why He has refused to intervene.

I don’t know if I have ever shared this story, and I’m not completely sure that I want to, but nonetheless, here it is:

One of the most difficult things for me (and my dad for that matter) was when I asked him for a priesthood blessing to be "healed" after I was released from the mental hospital from yet another failed attempt to end the torment. I had all the faith in the world that I would be healed. I didn’t just “believe,” I knew that all my dad had to do was say those magic words, and I would never hear another voice, nor ever plummet into the abyss of the dark night of the soul ever again. I knew that the more than 15 years of suffering could be ended if my dad proclaimed it through a priesthood blessing.

After being anointed with oil, my dad put his hands on my head, opened the prayer, and then paused for what seemed like an eternity. He then began the prayer again, stumbling over his words. After yet another pause, he began to sob lightly, and his voice shook and had a tremor that was so unfamiliar coming from this man who rarely (if ever) showed that form of emotion. He was a man of strength, faith, character, and certainty. To hear his voice shake, and to hear him hesitate and struggle with words was something that I had never heard this man with a Masters in English Literature ever do. It was unsettling, but I thought that perhaps he was being overcome with the “spirit” and my faith and resolve to be healed once he proclaimed the words was strengthened.

He then said the words I never expected to hear from him: "Stuart,” followed by yet another long pause and intermittent sobs, “your Father in Heaven does not want you to be healed." He than began crying again, closed the prayer, gave me a hug, and shut himself in his room for several hours. He didn't go to church for several months after that, and it was probably one of the defining moments in my life that began to feed my closet atheist.

I don’t know why G-d decides to give my cousin a brilliant brain, but the inability to express his thoughts coherently. I don’t know why He chooses to allow some people to be tormented by their own minds. I don’t know why He allows women to be raped, children to be abused, or people to starve. And I often go back and forth between the questions of “Where is G-d?” and more importantly… “Where is humanity?”

[_Ren]

Doc,

That took a lot out of me just to read. So I imagine it's something else to share.
My respect for you just keeps growing the longer I know you. (Well, 'kinda know').

[_Some Schmo]

My parents have the power and ability to wipe my a**, yet for some reason they decided at one point that I needed to wipe my own a**.

So much for the power of parents.

This isn't a very good analogy. A more accurate one would be "what kind of parents would ask their children to come wipe mommy and daddy's asses?" Fortunately, most don't, and that's because mommy and daddy can do it themselves (and they aren't even omnipotent).

[_Doctor Steuss]

My parents have the power and ability to wipe my a**, yet for some reason they decided at one point that I needed to wipe my own a**.

So much for the power of parents.

This isn't a very good analogy. A more accurate one would be "what kind of parents would ask their children to come wipe mommy and daddy's asses?" Fortunately, most don't, and that's because mommy and daddy can do it themselves (and they aren't even omnipotent).

G-d didn't create the poop. We did.

[_The Nehor]

It's clear in the Bible and the Book of Mormon that God is omniscient. I was taught my whole life that God knew the end from the beginning and everything in between.

My question is, then, if God knows we're going to fail at so many things, why does he not care to intervene where He knows people need Him? God knows those babies in Darfur need help, he knows they're not going to get it, he knows they're going to be hacked to pieces, but he does NOTHING! NOTHING!!?? What use is God if he does nothing to prevent human tragedy when he has all the power necessary to do so? Because we humans can't get to those babies in Darfur fast enough then that's just their tough luck, I guess. God is going to sit on his hands and watch people get raped, tortured, and murdered, see them starve and hear them plead with him for food and drink, but he has the nerve to decline to assist them when it would be so easy for him to save them, feed them, heal them...

Where is God? What use is He anyway if He has the power to help but refuses?

And I swear, if Nehor or anyone else pops onto this thread spouting that crap about death being no big deal and just a step on to another life, then I'm going to go off on them, Goddammit! It's not them being hacked to pieces in Darfur, is it? Maybe being brutally chopped up by a machete is no big deal to them and their powerless God because they're not the ones feeling the knife's blade.

KA

Having been knifed I would say that while it was very painful and also a big deal to me. I don't blame God for it. Feel free to go off on me as I would say all the things you said above if you hadn't already said them.