? for TBMs. Do you cringe during gospel doctrine class?

[_SatanWasSetUp]

Most TBMs on internet message boards appear intelligent, understand the issues, but have figured out a way to make Mormonism work. For example, the limited geography theory which accepts the Behring Straight migration to the Americas. And most internet TBMs believe in evolution, a local flood for Noah, and a billions of years old Earth. So my question is directed at the so called "Internet Mormons." How can you stand to sit through gospel doctrine class, or any sunday church meeting where the "Chapel Mormons" teach a literal Adam and Eve, a global flood, and a Hemispheric model for the Book of Mormon? Your tongues must get bloody from biting them for three hours straight.

[_The Nehor]

I still don't get the Internet vs. Chapel Mormon thing.

To be honest, I don't have to bite my tongue at all. I speak regularly and often. Evolution doesn't come up. The Flood is discussed in such a way that I have no problems with it. The only maps I've seen from the Book of Mormon in Gospel Doctrine are battle maps or very limited ones showing cities and those everyone knows are a guess.

In addition I've taught Gospel Doctrine and never had these situations come up in my class. The purpose of Gospel Doctrine class is NOT to dispense facts, it is to teach the Gospel in a way that the Spirit can move the students to make changes in their own lives. I can't remember any historical insights about Stephen or Saul yesterday though that was what the lesson was about. I do remember deciding that I needed to be less complicit in silence of the verbal stoning of others and that I needed to focus less on my social life and more on my romantic life.

[_harmony]

Most TBMs on internet message boards appear intelligent, understand the issues, but have figured out a way to make Mormonism work. For example, the limited geography theory which accepts the Behring Straight migration to the Americas. And most internet TBMs believe in evolution, a local flood for Noah, and a billions of years old Earth. So my question is directed at the so called "Internet Mormons." How can you stand to sit through gospel doctrine class, or any sunday church meeting where the "Chapel Mormons" teach a literal Adam and Eve, a global flood, and a Hemispheric model for the Book of Mormon? Your tongues must get bloody from biting them for three hours straight.

I avoid Sunday School like the plague it is. Even Relief Society has more worth than Sunday School.

[_ajax18]

The purpose of Gospel Doctrine class is NOT to dispense facts, it is to teach the Gospel in a way that the Spirit can move the students to make changes in their own lives.

Yeah that's usually why I don't make any comments. It does seem almost as if it is a trance or something. We're not really given any new information about the afterlife or how our current actions effect this future. That's partly why I don't really get anything out of GD class. That's partly why I haven't really been lifted to a new level of commitment. If the information is the same, what's going to change a persons motivational state? Are you just going to weaken his mind and put some kind of pressure on him to conform? That's really all it seems to be to me.

We just had a high priest get up and proclaim that the Church has no paid clergy. I cringed on that one.

[_Daniel Peterson]

According to Shades's questionnaire -- I've worked my way through it two or three times, with the same result each time -- I'm a "Chapel Mormon," so I'm not qualified to answer this, I guess.

[_Inconceivable]

I guess I went from a TBM chapel Mormon to disaffected Mormon. It blew me away that there were actually Mormons that knew what I had newly discovered and justified the most evil and Satanic actions of it's founders/leaders. I was amazed.

The reason why I stopped attending altogether was that I let attending get me angry. The more I attended, the more disconnected I became from my good friends there as well. I had a tendency to focus on the significant chasm between their beliefs and what they were overwhelmingly unaware of. How can one make it through Fast and Testimony meeting when you have such a deep and abiding disdain for it's founders?

I opted out of teaching 2 years ago when I saw that the next 5 weeks were dedicated to ancestor worship: The "faithful and valiant saints" that followed Brigham Young..

..to his camp to die of starvation, exposure and most of all, rejection of their prophet's counsel to not follow him until they had prepared every needful thing.

[_The Nehor]

Yeah that's usually why I don't make any comments. It does seem almost as if it is a trance or something. We're not really given any new information about the afterlife or how our current actions effect this future. That's partly why I don't really get anything out of GD class. That's partly why I haven't really been lifted to a new level of commitment. If the information is the same, what's going to change a persons motivational state? Are you just going to weaken his mind and put some kind of pressure on him to conform? That's really all it seems to be to me.

That would be the whole Spirit thing. The best gospel teacher I ever knew said that the greatest thrill was when someone came up to you after the lesson and thanked you for showing them something that you'd never mentioned at all or even alluded to. At that point you know you're teaching the right way because the Spirit can take what you say and personalize it so that they get what they need.

To be blunt if all I wanted was a few new facts it would be easier to skip the class and go read a book (my usual post-Church activity).

The mindset I attempt to have is to go in expecting to learn something and that if the Teacher or Speaker is boring I can preach my own sermon in my mind on the topic.

[_The Nehor]

According to Shades's questionnaire -- I've worked my way through it two or three times, with the same result each time -- I'm a "Chapel Mormon," so I'm not qualified to answer this, I guess.

At least you have a category, I'm always told I'm halfway in between the two. According to the definitions I hear internet Mormons explain away everything about the Church and live double lives of believing the Gospel while also repressing the vile Satanic orgies of the early Church and the chapel Mormons are all mindless sheep unwaveringly obeying everything they hear I'm kinda glad they don't think I fit in either.

I'll just stick with Mormon. Pass me a Krispy Kreme, I need some sugar.

[_Inconceivable]

Nehor,

You have an uncanny awareness of seeing what I saw as a TBM. The difference is that you have not stepped back after becoming aware of the troubling lives of it's founders as well as some of the doctrine.

In all seriousness, would you be willing to start a thread to explain as best you can how you can be aware and still maintain your peace?

[_truth dancer]

Hi Inconceivable...

Have you read Eric Hoffer's, The True Believer?

It may answer your question.

The way I see it... there are those who see the world through the LDS lens and do not know the issues, and there are those who discover the issues or/and have a different worldview. Of those who know the issues there are those who can no longer believe and there are those who expand/alter/distort/twist/rationalize/justify the teachings/doctrine to figure out a way to remain believing.

Of these three groups the last is the "true believer" of which Hoffer discusses.

:-)

~dancer~