Discussion on Universalism and the Mormon Church

[Jersey Girl]

Nephi on the MAD board, posted an excellent thread on his melding of Universalist concepts with the Mormon Church. Of course, this could apply to just about any Christian denomination but I thought it might be of interest to some of you. My own beliefs have definite Universalist tie-ins. Anyway here is the link and I hope this is something that others might want to discuss here.

http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index.php?showtopic=26960

[_Nephi]

Yeah... I'm the guy who posted that. My wife and I are about to head for church for choir practice, and when I get back I can field questions and add to my post, but most of what needs to be said is in the link in the OP's post.

[_Ray A]

My own beliefs have definite Universalist tie-ins.

So do mine, and perhaps like you (?), I find many aspects of Mormonism tie in very well. Krishnamurti once said, "truth is a pathless land", which is perhaps akin to the idea that Mormonism accepts truth "from where ever it may come" (I'm not necessarily saying individual Mormons, here, nor for that matter, the "institutional Church". Now I suppose some will choke to death on that statement).

[_Bond...James Bond]

Hey Nephi....another Bluegrasser....

Here's a few general questions to get the ball rolling:

Firstly, are you a pretty convicted believer in Mormonism (or are you more cafeteria Mormon)?

How can you combine Universalist concepts with the rather narrow viewpoint of the LDS church and be alright with it?

Do you accept other religious leaders or churchs as having some religious authority or are you exclusively believing in the authority of the LDS church and it's leaders?

[_Nephi]

I do want to distinguish the difference between universalism and unitarians. Universalism, in and of itself, isn't exactly a religion, moreso it is a concept which overlays a belief system (whether it be a religion or not). Unitarianism is a Christian religion that believes that Jesus is NOT part of God, nor His son. That God is God himself and only (strict adherence to the idea of Monotheism).

There is also a church around today (great church to go to occasionally) called the Unitarian Universalist church. This church believes that we are all on our own path to God, and you must find you own way. However, the church (in my opinion) lacks foundation or any solid theology, and generally keeps from mentioning anything about Christ, or Christianity (at least in the congregations I have visited).

The congregates kind of believe they can choose their own path, which is not what I am trying to say in my universalist thread noted by the OP. In my thread I stipulate there is but one path for you to get back to God, and each of us has his or her own unique pathway to take. The UU church has a lot of scholarly information for others to learn from, but (again) lacks real spirituality. I find that most UU churches are made up of "rejects" from other religions, with a large segment of homosexual men and women.

Just wanted to make sure that the context of the thread linked is understood.

[_Nephi]

Hey Nephi....another Bluegrasser....

Here's a few general questions to get the ball rolling:

Firstly, are you a pretty convicted believer in Mormonism (or are you more cafeteria Mormon)?

Up until Sunday I was a temple worthy Mormon who grows very well spiritually within the church. I am not sure what you mean by a cafeteria Mormon. Is this kinda like someone who goes through the motions but doesn't really buy into the whole thing? And I turned in my temple recommend after I decided that I was not being faithful to the law of tithing due to an extreme money crisis we have been experiencing in our family for the past year.

How can you combine Universalist concepts with the rather narrow viewpoint of the LDS church and be alright with it?

If your viewpoint you are referring to is that this is the true church, then my answer to is this: when I say this, I am saying that for me, this is the true church; it is the church which gives a solid foundation for myself and my children, and yet allows for spiritual freedom to explore and find God on your pathway laid before you. As for the next man? I am not to judge, so by me saying "this is the true church" I do not speak for the whole of society, or even my wife or children.

Do you accept other religious leaders or churchs as having some religious authority or are you exclusively believing in the authority of the LDS church and it's leaders?

The question can be answered like this... Does Hu Jintao, President of China have authority? What about President Bush, does he have authority? The question is too broad, and tries to imply that there is but one authority, when (in fact) there is not. Authorities only have authority over their church, always have, always will.

[_Bond...James Bond]

Hey Nephi....another Bluegrasser....

Here's a few general questions to get the ball rolling:

Firstly, are you a pretty convicted believer in Mormonism (or are you more cafeteria Mormon)?

Up until Sunday I was a temple worthy Mormon who grows very well spiritually within the church. I am not sure what you mean by a cafeteria Mormon. Is this kinda like someone who goes through the motions but doesn't really buy into the whole thing? And I turned in my temple recommend after I decided that I was not being faithful to the law of tithing due to an extreme money crisis we have been experiencing in our family for the past year.

I take "cafeteria Mormon" to mean someone who sees religion or church as an ala carte menu....taking things that look good and rejecting things that smell funny.

Sorry you're having financial issues.

How can you combine Universalist concepts with the rather narrow viewpoint of the LDS church and be alright with it?

If your viewpoint you are referring to is that this is the true church, then my answer to is this: when I say this, I am saying that for me, this is the true church; it is the church which gives a solid foundation for myself and my children, and yet allows for spiritual freedom to explore and find God on your pathway laid before you. As for the next man? I am not to judge, so by me saying "this is the true church" I do not speak for the whole of society, or even my wife or children.

I don't see it as the true church....but if it works for you then go for it.

Do you accept other religious leaders or churchs as having some religious authority or are you exclusively believing in the authority of the LDS church and it's leaders?

The question can be answered like this... Does Hu Jintao, President of China have authority? What about President Bush, does he have authority? The question is too broad, and tries to imply that there is but one authority, when (in fact) there is not. Authorities only have authority over their church, always have, always will.

Alright....I was just shotgunning a couple of questions out to give us something to talk about.

[_Nephi]

I don't see it as the true church....but if it works for you then go for it.

This is the start of Universalism. However, universalism can be used to eventually understand the other's pathway choices and vehicles used in these choices. I hope you can see why someone would think this, and not think condescendingly of them because of it. For example, being in Kentucky (maybe you have been to one before) I have been privileged to be invited to and witness a good ole southern "snake handling church". Not for me, I guarantee it, and yet the amount of spiritualism in the room when I was there could be felt by anyone w/a spiritual compass. For me, its not what will help me in my pathway, but for those who are there, it works fine, and this is all gravy, baby. "If it works for them, then go for it", but at no point do I think I somehow have a better understanding than they do. This leads to two very bad things - pride and judgment of another.

[_Blixa]

My own beliefs have definite Universalist tie-ins.

So do mine, and perhaps like you (?), I find many aspects of Mormonism tie in very well. Krishnamurti once said, "truth is a pathless land", which is perhaps akin to the idea that Mormonism accepts truth "from where ever it may come" (I'm not necessarily saying individual Mormons, here, nor for that matter, the "institutional Church". Now I suppose some will choke to death on that statement).

Is this a paraphrase from Joseph Smith, Ray? I'm asking because it does seem different, as do many things, from what individual Mormons generally believe and what the contemporary institution teaches...

[_Nephi]

My own beliefs have definite Universalist tie-ins.

So do mine, and perhaps like you (?), I find many aspects of Mormonism tie in very well. Krishnamurti once said, "truth is a pathless land", which is perhaps akin to the idea that Mormonism accepts truth "from where ever it may come" (I'm not necessarily saying individual Mormons, here, nor for that matter, the "institutional Church". Now I suppose some will choke to death on that statement).

Is this a paraphrase from Joseph Smith, Ray? I'm asking because it does seem different, as do many things, from what individual Mormons generally believe and what the contemporary institution teaches...

I cannot speak for him, but generally speaking, Universalism, at least how I understand it, is in stark contrast to what a general Mormon believes, however, signs of universalism are ALL OVER Mormonism. One bigtime clue of it is in the articles of faith: 11 - We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may. This doesn't go so far as to say that their way is true for them and our way is true for us, and they are both true because of it, but most people cannot grasp or swallow the concept of Universalism, and so it is left as is.