Dangers of "The Plan"

[_Scottie]

When I was in Mormonism, I was under the delusion of "The Great Plan". In this plan, God has predestined what will happen to us. No matter what horrible thing happened to a member, it was always viewed as a blessing from God to make them stronger. It was widely believed that God had planned for this to happen, and that it was all part of our individual test. There is no escaping this. If it is in the plan, whatever this bad thing is, it WILL happen to you. Whether it be an accident or disease, it didn't matter. This ailment was inevitable.

Why is this a danger, you may ask?

In my TBM thinking, it caused extreme recklessness. I would think to myself, "If it is in God's plan that I become paralyzed, it will happen and nothing I do to prevent it will matter. If it is not in His plan, well, then what do I have to worry about?"

The second problem, perhaps limited only to myself, was in my patriarchal blessing. In it, it claimed, "You will live a long happy life of service and joy." I honestly believed that. God had a plan for me, and that I absolutely would not die until I had lived a "long life". This further increased my carelessness.

In my early 20's, I owned a bullet bike (a CBR 600F2, for any of you that know bikes). It wasn't uncommon for me to go 120mph. All because I believed 1) that if I were going to be injured, it would happen no matter what, and 2) I was destined to live to a ripe old age, therefore, nothing bad could possibly happen to me.

It is a dangerous way to live life. Since I no longer believe in God, I have now taken responsibility for what may or may not happen to me. I won't buy a motorcycle because the danger is all too real. There is no guardian angel watching over me. I am on my own. I must take every precaution to make sure nothing bad happens to me.

[_Nephi]

When I was in Mormonism, I was under the delusion of "The Great Plan". In this plan, God has predestined what will happen to us. No matter what horrible thing happened to a member, it was always viewed as a blessing from God to make them stronger. It was widely believed that God had planned for this to happen, and that it was all part of our individual test. There is no escaping this. If it is in the plan, whatever this bad thing is, it WILL happen to you. Whether it be an accident or disease, it didn't matter. This ailment was inevitable.

Why is this a danger, you may ask?

In my TBM thinking, it caused extreme recklessness. I would think to myself, "If it is in God's plan that I become paralyzed, it will happen and nothing I do to prevent it will matter. If it is not in His plan, well, then what do I have to worry about?"

The second problem, perhaps limited only to myself, was in my patriarchal blessing. In it, it claimed, "You will live a long happy life of service and joy." I honestly believed that. God had a plan for me, and that I absolutely would not die until I had lived a "long life". This further increased my carelessness.

In my early 20's, I owned a bullet bike (a CBR 600F2, for any of you that know bikes). It wasn't uncommon for me to go 120mph. All because I believed 1) that if I were going to be injured, it would happen no matter what, and 2) I was destined to live to a ripe old age, therefore, nothing bad could possibly happen to me.

It is a dangerous way to live life. Since I no longer believe in God, I have now taken responsibility for what may or may not happen to me. I won't buy a motorcycle because the danger is all too real. There is no guardian angel watching over me. I am on my own. I must take every precaution to make sure nothing bad happens to me.

I do believe that God has this ability to know all, but this does not negate our free agency. There were times in my life when I thought (well before the church) that what happens will happen, and then I would go and risk my life over stupid stuff, and yes, this is dangerous thought. But "The Plan" to me didn't negate my free agency, and therefore, my free agency played a crucial role as to if the "Blessings of the Lord" occurred to me or not. I think, though, Scottie, we all go through an "invincible" stage in life, whereby the motto is, "what will happen will happen, and nothing I can do will stop this."

Good points you make, though.

[_Dr. Shades]

I won't buy a motorcycle because the danger is all too real. There is no guardian angel watching over me. I am on my own. I must take every precaution to make sure nothing bad happens to me.

Forgive the off-topic diversion, but my best friend was killed in a motorcycle accident a little over 11 years ago.

Now back to your regularly-scheduled programming.

[_Yoda]

I won't buy a motorcycle because the danger is all too real. There is no guardian angel watching over me. I am on my own. I must take every precaution to make sure nothing bad happens to me.

Forgive the off-topic diversion, but my best friend was killed in a motorcycle accident a little over 11 years ago.

Now back to your regularly-scheduled programming.

Oh, Shades. I'm so sorry.

:(

[_Scottie]

When I was in Mormonism, I was under the delusion of "The Great Plan". In this plan, God has predestined what will happen to us. No matter what horrible thing happened to a member, it was always viewed as a blessing from God to make them stronger. It was widely believed that God had planned for this to happen, and that it was all part of our individual test. There is no escaping this. If it is in the plan, whatever this bad thing is, it WILL happen to you. Whether it be an accident or disease, it didn't matter. This ailment was inevitable.

Why is this a danger, you may ask?

In my TBM thinking, it caused extreme recklessness. I would think to myself, "If it is in God's plan that I become paralyzed, it will happen and nothing I do to prevent it will matter. If it is not in His plan, well, then what do I have to worry about?"

The second problem, perhaps limited only to myself, was in my patriarchal blessing. In it, it claimed, "You will live a long happy life of service and joy." I honestly believed that. God had a plan for me, and that I absolutely would not die until I had lived a "long life". This further increased my carelessness.

In my early 20's, I owned a bullet bike (a CBR 600F2, for any of you that know bikes). It wasn't uncommon for me to go 120mph. All because I believed 1) that if I were going to be injured, it would happen no matter what, and 2) I was destined to live to a ripe old age, therefore, nothing bad could possibly happen to me.

It is a dangerous way to live life. Since I no longer believe in God, I have now taken responsibility for what may or may not happen to me. I won't buy a motorcycle because the danger is all too real. There is no guardian angel watching over me. I am on my own. I must take every precaution to make sure nothing bad happens to me.

I do believe that God has this ability to know all, but this does not negate our free agency. There were times in my life when I thought (well before the church) that what happens will happen, and then I would go and risk my life over stupid stuff, and yes, this is dangerous thought. But "The Plan" to me didn't negate my free agency, and therefore, my free agency played a crucial role as to if the "Blessings of the Lord" occurred to me or not. I think, though, Scottie, we all go through an "invincible" stage in life, whereby the motto is, "what will happen will happen, and nothing I can do will stop this."

Good points you make, though.

This is an interesting dichotomy in LDS belief. They are strong proponents of free agency, yet you hear all the time about how it is God's will and that it was part of God's plan. So, which is it? Is God playing hands off and letting us make our own choices via free agency, or is He intervening at times and causing accidents to happen to "test" us? I mean, an accident can't happen unless we make the choices to put us in the situation where the accident could happen. Did God somehow put the thoughts in our minds to guide us to make these choices that led to this accident? Or was it simply our free agency and God had no preconceived plan for this accident to happen?

[_Scottie]

I won't buy a motorcycle because the danger is all too real. There is no guardian angel watching over me. I am on my own. I must take every precaution to make sure nothing bad happens to me.

Forgive the off-topic diversion, but my best friend was killed in a motorcycle accident a little over 11 years ago.

Now back to your regularly-scheduled programming.

Very sorry to hear this Shades. This is exactly why I won't buy a motorcycle. I have kids to raise. The risk is just too great.

[_Nephi]

When I was in Mormonism, I was under the delusion of "The Great Plan". In this plan, God has predestined what will happen to us. No matter what horrible thing happened to a member, it was always viewed as a blessing from God to make them stronger. It was widely believed that God had planned for this to happen, and that it was all part of our individual test. There is no escaping this. If it is in the plan, whatever this bad thing is, it WILL happen to you. Whether it be an accident or disease, it didn't matter. This ailment was inevitable.

Why is this a danger, you may ask?

In my TBM thinking, it caused extreme recklessness. I would think to myself, "If it is in God's plan that I become paralyzed, it will happen and nothing I do to prevent it will matter. If it is not in His plan, well, then what do I have to worry about?"

The second problem, perhaps limited only to myself, was in my patriarchal blessing. In it, it claimed, "You will live a long happy life of service and joy." I honestly believed that. God had a plan for me, and that I absolutely would not die until I had lived a "long life". This further increased my carelessness.

In my early 20's, I owned a bullet bike (a CBR 600F2, for any of you that know bikes). It wasn't uncommon for me to go 120mph. All because I believed 1) that if I were going to be injured, it would happen no matter what, and 2) I was destined to live to a ripe old age, therefore, nothing bad could possibly happen to me.

It is a dangerous way to live life. Since I no longer believe in God, I have now taken responsibility for what may or may not happen to me. I won't buy a motorcycle because the danger is all too real. There is no guardian angel watching over me. I am on my own. I must take every precaution to make sure nothing bad happens to me.

I do believe that God has this ability to know all, but this does not negate our free agency. There were times in my life when I thought (well before the church) that what happens will happen, and then I would go and risk my life over stupid stuff, and yes, this is dangerous thought. But "The Plan" to me didn't negate my free agency, and therefore, my free agency played a crucial role as to if the "Blessings of the Lord" occurred to me or not. I think, though, Scottie, we all go through an "invincible" stage in life, whereby the motto is, "what will happen will happen, and nothing I can do will stop this."

Good points you make, though.

This is an interesting dichotomy in LDS belief. They are strong proponents of free agency, yet you hear all the time about how it is God's will and that it was part of God's plan. So, which is it? Is God playing hands off and letting us make our own choices via free agency, or is He intervening at times and causing accidents to happen to "test" us? I mean, an accident can't happen unless we make the choices to put us in the situation where the accident could happen. Did God somehow put the thoughts in our minds to guide us to make these choices that led to this accident? Or was it simply our free agency and God had no preconceived plan for this accident to happen?

Some say that the idea of Omnipotence just means that God knows all and therefore plans for all outcomes. Our free agency stays in tack. For instance, if I put steak down of the floor and let my dog in, my "omnipotence" allows me to know that my dog is going to eat it or not eat it. Does that negate his free agency? Nope. I can plan for the two outcomes as well. One, he eats it, thereby I punish him, or two, he doesn't eat, whereby I reward him.

However, very few subscribe to this in the church, and I have approached them with the same thing in Elder's Quorum, and they kinda rhetoric'ed the thing to death, never really saying much of anything.

[_Scottie]

Some say that the idea of Omnipotence just means that God knows all and therefore plans for all outcomes. Our free agency stays in tack. For instance, if I put steak down of the floor and let my dog in, my "omnipotence" allows me to know that my dog is going to eat it or not eat it. Does that negate his free agency? Nope. I can plan for the two outcomes as well. One, he eats it, thereby I punish him, or two, he doesn't eat, whereby I reward him.

However, very few subscribe to this in the church, and I have approached them with the same thing in Elder's Quorum, and they kinda rhetoric'ed the thing to death, never really saying much of anything.

Very interesting theory, Nephi. A God with unlimited understanding would be able to plan for unlimited scenarios.

[_Ray A]

The second problem, perhaps limited only to myself, was in my patriarchal blessing. In it, it claimed, "You will live a long happy life of service and joy." I honestly believed that. God had a plan for me, and that I absolutely would not die until I had lived a "long life". This further increased my carelessness.

In my early 20's, I owned a bullet bike (a CBR 600F2, for any of you that know bikes). It wasn't uncommon for me to go 120mph. All because I believed 1) that if I were going to be injured, it would happen no matter what, and 2) I was destined to live to a ripe old age, therefore, nothing bad could possibly happen to me.

It is a dangerous way to live life. Since I no longer believe in God, I have now taken responsibility for what may or may not happen to me. I won't buy a motorcycle because the danger is all too real. There is no guardian angel watching over me. I am on my own. I must take every precaution to make sure nothing bad happens to me.

These are personal beliefs, and you don't have to be a Mormon to hold them. Formula One racing driver Aryton Senna firmly believed that after surviving a horrific crash that God would always protect him (see below though). He was killed in the San Marino Grand Prix in 1994. He was driven, literally, by his personal beliefs, and brought a lot of interest to F1. But Senna was not reckless, even with his beliefs. If you do 120mph on a motorcycle on an open road, even with a belief you're invincible, that's stupidity, not faith. Senna was a cautious racing driver who was safety conscious, and the details surrounding the fatal accident are here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Ayrton_Senna

Where Senna's faith in "the plan" (for him) is really reflected is in this entry:

Undoubtedly, Senna was one of the greatest drivers of all time, but for millions of people, he was much more than this - his character was larger than life; he demonstrated almost superhuman skill and determination that would have stood out in whatever field he had chosen to be part of.

Off the track, Senna was a deeply religious and compassionate man. Before his death, he created the Ayrton Senna Foundation, an organization with the aim of helping poor and needy young people in Brazil and around the world. As a result, Senna continues to impact the world today and has become a beacon of hope to millions of his countrymen and an example of professionalism and humanity to those who remember him.

The latter was more part of "the plan" Senna saw in his life. But with all of this belief, Senna was the one most concerned about the safety of the San Marino track. I think he realised that even God couldn't protect him unless he did all he could to preserve his life. If you jump off a 200 foot cliff believing that "God will protect you", it's not much worse than riding a motorcycle at 120mph believing "God will protect you".

[_Scottie]

The second problem, perhaps limited only to myself, was in my patriarchal blessing. In it, it claimed, "You will live a long happy life of service and joy." I honestly believed that. God had a plan for me, and that I absolutely would not die until I had lived a "long life". This further increased my carelessness.

In my early 20's, I owned a bullet bike (a CBR 600F2, for any of you that know bikes). It wasn't uncommon for me to go 120mph. All because I believed 1) that if I were going to be injured, it would happen no matter what, and 2) I was destined to live to a ripe old age, therefore, nothing bad could possibly happen to me.

It is a dangerous way to live life. Since I no longer believe in God, I have now taken responsibility for what may or may not happen to me. I won't buy a motorcycle because the danger is all too real. There is no guardian angel watching over me. I am on my own. I must take every precaution to make sure nothing bad happens to me.

These are personal beliefs, and you don't have to be a Mormon to hold them. Formula One racing driver Aryton Senna firmly believed that after surviving a horrific crash that God would always protect him (see below though). He was killed in the San Marino Grand Prix in 1994. He was driven, literally, by his personal beliefs, and brought a lot of interest to F1. But Senna was not reckless, even with his beliefs. If you do 120mph on a motorcycle on an open road, even with a belief you're invincible, that's stupidity, not faith. Senna was a cautious racing driver who was safety conscious, and the details surrounding the fatal accident are here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Ayrton_Senna

Where Senna's faith in "the plan" (for him) is really reflected is in this entry:

Undoubtedly, Senna was one of the greatest drivers of all time, but for millions of people, he was much more than this - his character was larger than life; he demonstrated almost superhuman skill and determination that would have stood out in whatever field he had chosen to be part of.

Off the track, Senna was a deeply religious and compassionate man. Before his death, he created the Ayrton Senna Foundation, an organization with the aim of helping poor and needy young people in Brazil and around the world. As a result, Senna continues to impact the world today and has become a beacon of hope to millions of his countrymen and an example of professionalism and humanity to those who remember him.

The latter was more part of "the plan" Senna saw in his life. But with all of this belief, Senna was the one most concerned about the safety of the San Marino track. I think he realised that even God couldn't protect him unless he did all he could to preserve his life. If you jump off a 200 foot cliff believing that "God will protect you", it's not much worse than riding a motorcycle at 120mph believing "God will protect you".

I agree. Part of my post was that whatever is going to happen will happen, regardless. The part about being invincible is very personal, in that it was in my personal patriarchal blessing. I'm certainly not saying that anyone should believe that. Just me. But it was a danger nonetheless.

Senna could hold the former belief, and still stay true to this thread. If he thought that God had a plan for him, it wouldn't matter what he did. Instead of dying in the first crash, God had planned for him to die in the 2nd crash.