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Whenever the conversation of polygamy comes up, many believers point to the fact that polygamous wives had testimonies of the principle. This is supposed to silence criticism of the principle, or how it was practiced. Someone else mentioned recently having seen a documentary in which FLDS women bore their testimonies, as well. I had also seen that documentary and have always regretted not obtaining the transcript.

But I found something just as good on mormonstories - an interview with Anne, a fundamentalist polygamist Mormon. Particularly interesting is the very end, when she bears her testimony.

http://mormonstories.org/?p=203

Have MADdites ever addressed this fact - that FLDS women also have testimonies of polygamy?

beastie wrote:Have MADdites ever addressed this fact - that FLDS women also have testimonies of polygamy?

I think from the LDS perspective, the testimony of polygamy is at least evidence that the polygamous women don't appear to fell demeaned by it. Whether that means God commanded it or not is, I think, a separate issue (is it really a testimony vs no true Scotsman, etc.) as is the issue of whether women are degraded by polygamy even if some do not feel that way.

I think from the LDS perspective, the testimony of polygamy is at least evidence that the polygamous women don't appear to fell demeaned by it. Whether that means God commanded it or not is, I think, a separate issue (is it really a testimony vs no true Scotsman, etc.) as is the issue of whether women are degraded by polygamy even if some do not feel that way.

I don't think that's necessarily true. Some of the most ardent defenders of the principle in public recorded far different thoughts in their journals. Overall, I think the women viewed it as a burden to be born, for which they deserved rewards in the next life. Believing God commanded it and not feeling degraded by it are two different things.

asbestosman wrote:

beastie wrote:Have MADdites ever addressed this fact - that FLDS women also have testimonies of polygamy?

I think from the LDS perspective, the testimony of polygamy is at least evidence that the polygamous women don't appear to fell demeaned by it. Whether that means God commanded it or not is, I think, a separate issue (is it really a testimony vs no true Scotsman, etc.) as is the issue of whether women are degraded by polygamy even if some do not feel that way.

Do you believe the FLDS testimonies? If so, are you cool with polygamy as long as the group practicing it can find a few women to go in front of the public and testify to its truthfulness?

SatanWasSetUp wrote:

asbestosman wrote:

beastie wrote:Have MADdites ever addressed this fact - that FLDS women also have testimonies of polygamy?

I think from the LDS perspective, the testimony of polygamy is at least evidence that the polygamous women don't appear to fell demeaned by it. Whether that means God commanded it or not is, I think, a separate issue (is it really a testimony vs no true Scotsman, etc.) as is the issue of whether women are degraded by polygamy even if some do not feel that way.

Do you believe the FLDS testimonies? If so, are you cool with polygamy as long as the group practicing it can find a few women to go in front of the public and testify to its truthfulness?

I'm not thrilled by the prospect, but I would support polygamy, under certain conditions:

1. the people involved were all adults.
2. women had the same right to multiple spouses as men did.
3. it wasn't tied to a religion.
4. people entered it freely with no coersion or manipulation.
5. people could leave as freely as they entered.

Not gonna happen though, especially #3. Personally, I'd love it if the marriage laws changed. I'd like to see how the church's PR department would spin that one!

The TLC (True and Living Church of Jesus Christ of Saints of the Last Days) in Manti used to have a lot of interesting testimonies on their website. They took it down a while ago - I think it the "gathering of the gentiles" is over, or something like that. Luckily, the wayback machine has preserved them, as a voice speaking from the dust.

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AmazingDisgrace wrote:The TLC (True and Living Church of Jesus Christ of Saints of the Last Days) in Manti used to have a lot of interesting testimonies on their website. They took it down a while ago - I think it the "gathering of the gentiles" is over, or something like that. Luckily, the wayback machine has preserved them, as a voice speaking from the dust.

text

Interesting reading. The very first testimony I read was from Morrie Cloward and he had this thought provoking gem:

"The purpose of the LDS church was to establish Zion. I testify that they have failed in their mission and purpose, that they have instead gone whoring after the world and they are speedily traveling in the opposite direction. How can they establish Zion when they have forsaken all the doctrines and ordinances that would establish her?"

Similar to an LDS testimony of the Great Apostacy.

asbestosman wrote:

beastie wrote:Have MADdites ever addressed this fact - that FLDS women also have testimonies of polygamy?

I think from the LDS perspective, the testimony of polygamy is at least evidence that the polygamous women don't appear to fell demeaned by it. Whether that means God commanded it or not is, I think, a separate issue (is it really a testimony vs no true Scotsman, etc.) as is the issue of whether women are degraded by polygamy even if some do not feel that way.

The way it's been used on me is "The polygamous wives (such as Helen Mar Kimball) didn't have a problem with it, so therefore you shouldn't either." They also explain that because these women later came to believe in the principle, there was no coercion involved.

harmony wrote:2. women had the same right to multiple spouses as men did.

Does the fact that Joseph Smith married other men's wives help? ;)

harmony wrote:3. it wasn't tied to a religion.

I guess Joseph's polyandry doesn't help. ;)

I don't see why the religious tie should be bad in and of itself unless the religious ties made is an obligation or in other words involved some kind of coercion in the form of expectiations placed upon one by the religious community. Perhaps that isn't strictly coercion, but it does seem to put pressure on making a decision which is likely to lead to more difficulties than strict monogamy.

I suppose in some sense, there may similar problems to the religious obligation to marry and raise kids--a major difference being that society accepts monogamous marriage much more readily than polygamy although polygamy is more difficult for a society.

asbestosman wrote:I don't see why the religious tie should be bad in and of itself unless the religious ties made is an obligation or in other words involved some kind of coercion in the form of expectiations placed upon one by the religious community.

We see this all the time today, and I don't see any reason why it didn't occur with polygamy back in the early days. For example, a young woman being called into the bishops office and told the Lord wants her to serve as a primary teacher. Most young women, even if they say no, feel obligated to say yes, and end up feeling guilty if they turn the calling down. That's religious coercion. Take that example and magnify it a few times over to get a feeling how hard it was for women to turn down polygamous proposals from the prophet himself.