Why is it so hard to maintain a testimony?

[_SatanWasSetUp]

If the church is true, it should be easy to obtain a testimony and keep it. Anytime I learn something new, I don't have to constantly tell myself that it's the truth. Teachers in school don't tell thier students they have to have a "testimony" in the things they are learning, and this testimony has to be nourished by telling themselves and others that they "know" the things the teacher taught is true, and that if they aren't always telling themselves that what they were taught is "true" they will lose that knowledge. Generally, if you're taught something you remember it and build more knowldge on top of it as you move on in life. You are not taught the same thing year in and year out with an emphasis on telling yourself that what you are learning is true.

One analogy used is church that stuck with me is the garden. Maintaining your testimony is like maintaining a garden. If you neglect either one, they will die. The truth will wither away, just like the neglected garden. But how can that be if what the church teaches is true? How can someone forget the truth simply because they stopped reminding themselves of it? I don't have to keep telling myself that the Earth is round. If someone tells me the Earth is round, I say "I know." I don't think I'll ever forget no matter how much I neglect to remind myself. However, if someone told me the Earth was flat and actually somehow convinced me of it, I can see how I might forget that "fact" if I didn't constantly remind myself of what he taught and attend the Flat Earth meetings regularly.

I don't mean to offend church members by comparing them to flat earthers, but is the need for testimony, and the constant maintenance of that testimony, caused by a belief in something that has very little proof to back it up?

[_Some Schmo]

I don't mean to offend church members by comparing them to flat earthers, but is the need for testimony, and the constant maintenance of that testimony, caused by a belief in something that has very little proof to back it up?

Don't you know anything about brainwashing? The mind gets dirty with all the facts and logic concerning our experience, and it must be washed on a regular basis so that evil stuff doesn't interfere.

Reason and logic are the enemies of faith, doncha know?

[_rcrocket]

I don't mean to offend church members by comparing them to flat earthers, but is the need for testimony, and the constant maintenance of that testimony, caused by a belief in something that has very little proof to back it up?

When the author of Acts reports that "[e]very day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts," (NIV Acts 2:46), do you think they were meeting to discuss sports? Or were they meeting to affirm and reaffirm their faith?

"Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching." (NIV Hebrews 10:25.)

How about you? Have you given up meeting together with the Saints, to encourage them?

rcrocket

[_Yoda]

Frankly, I think that the analogy of the garden is a little misplaced. Rather than utilizing the analogy of tending the garden to maintaining your testimony, I think that the analogy should really be applied to living the gospel of Christ.

The gospel of Christ has many aspects to it. In order for a person to benefit from it, there are daily actions you have to do in order to reap the reward.

It is a constant effort to be kind to one another...to be honest in your dealings, etc.

It is this group of daily actions which should represent the tending of the garden.

It's not about simply saying over and over again..."the Church is true....the earth is round.."

It's about applying the teachings of Christ.

[_SatanWasSetUp]

Frankly, I think that the analogy of the garden is a little misplaced. Rather than utilizing the analogy of tending the garden to maintaining your testimony, I think that the analogy should really be applied to living the gospel of Christ.

The gospel of Christ has many aspects to it. In order for a person to benefit from it, there are daily actions you have to do in order to reap the reward.

It is a constant effort to be kind to one another...to be honest in your dealings, etc.

It is this group of daily actions which should represent the tending of the garden.

It's not about simply saying over and over again..."the Church is true....the earth is round.."

It's about applying the teachings of Christ.

But you don't have to have a testimony in the Mormon church to do those things. Most atheists believe in being kind to others and being honest in your dealings. Those are universal virtues, at least in western cultures. And as far as following the teachings of Christ, any Christian religion will teach that. I'm not even talking about meeting at the Mormon church and planning activities, visiting, having fun etc. I'm talking specifically about "I know this (Mormon) church is true, I know Joseph Smith was a true prophet, I know Gordon B. Hicnkley is the true living Prophet today, etc." If those things were really true, would you really need to remind yourself of them on a regular basis, and if you stopped reminding yourself of them, and stopped meeting with others who believe the same things, would you really forget?

[_William Schryver]

If that were true, it would have made no sense for the apostle to have warned and encouraged his charges thusly:

Ephesians 6

14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

And here the Lord himself warned:

3 Nephi 18

18 Behold, verily, verily, I say unto you, ye must watch and pray always lest ye enter into temptation; for Satan desireth to have you, that he may sift you as wheat.

And here:

D&C 31

12 Pray always, lest you enter into temptation and lose your reward.

And here:

D&C 93

49 What I say unto one I say unto all; pray always lest that wicked one have power in you, and remove you out of your place.

And finally here:

D&C 20

29 And we know that all men must repent and believe on the name of Jesus Christ, and worship the Father in his name, and endure in faith on his name to the end, or they cannot be saved in the kingdom of God.

32 But there is a possibility that man may fall from grace and depart from the living God;

33 Therefore let the church take heed and pray always, lest they fall into temptation;

The entire concept of “enduring to the end” would have no relevance if, as you suggest, it was simply a matter of “learning” that something is true.

When it comes to spirituality, one must remain connected to the vine, or he fails to produce fruit, he withers, dies, and is ultimately cast off.

Of course, the first thing a person begins to think once s/he becomes alienated from the Spirit of God is that s/he has no need of such things in order to be happy and successful in life. And before you know it, the things that once seemed so true and precious are transformed into false and worthless. Before long, it all comes to be viewed as a tawdry joke and one wonders how it was possible to have been so idiotic to have believed in such patently ludicrous ideas.

[_Some Schmo]

If those things were really true, would you really need to remind yourself of them on a regular basis, and if you stopped reminding yourself of them, and stopped meeting with others who believe the same things, would you really forget?

OK, more seriously...

You have to remember that Mormons are the only ones who think it's ok to use the words "faith" and "knowledge" interchangeably. Normal people realize they aren't the same thing at all.

Since faith is the belief in things for which there's no evidence, sure, you need to keep reminding yourself of those things because without evidence, doubt is inevitable. So you repeat the same memorized rubbish, talk to the same people who all agree with you (and make sure to avoid those who disagree; deride those with non-faith-based beliefs too - this really helps), nod your head a lot, and try to actually think as little as possible. This is the way to true Mormon enlightenment.

This is not to be confused with actual knowledge, however. Most people who use the word knowledge are actually referring to things for which there is empirical evidence, so doubt isn't nearly the same concern.

[_SatanWasSetUp]

Of course, the first thing a person begins to think once s/he becomes alienated from the Spirit of God is that s/he has no need of such things in order to be happy and successful in life. And before you know it, the things that once seemed so true and precious are transformed into false and worthless. Before long, it all comes to be viewed as a tawdry joke and one wonders how it was possible to have been so idiotic to have believed in such patently ludicrous ideas.

Of course. That is exactly what happens when you discover you were wrong. Have you ever discovered you were wrong about anything? Often times you think, "How could I have been so stupid." It's a common human reaction to making mistakes, trusting someone you shouldn't, investing money in a scam, buying a used car from a sleazy salesman, and the list goes on and one. Depending on the injury caused by the mistake, you are often angry at first, but once you move past that you can make light of it, and hopefully use it as a learning experience.

From a religious standpoint, how many Mormon converts claim to be much happier now that they've moved past the religion of their family? The things they were raised to believe were precious and true they now consider false or even apostate. Is that a bad thing? Not from the missionary's point of view.

Back to the main point, this isn't about faith, it's about knowledge. Remember, Mormons don't have faith the things they believe are true, they KNOW they are true ("I know this church is true"). To know something is to have knowledge of it. Once you have knowledge of something, why do you need to constantly remind yourself of it by bearing testimony of it, at the risk of losing that knowledge?

[_Yoda]

Once you have knowledge of something, why do you need to constantly remind yourself of it by bearing testimony of it, at the risk of losing that knowledge?

You don't. All you're doing, or should be doing, is simply sharing that knowledge with others.

[_guy sajer]

When the author of Acts reports that "[e]very day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts," (NIV Acts 2:46), do you think they were meeting to discuss sports? Or were they meeting to affirm and reaffirm their faith?

I don't know. I understand that Jerusalem was in a tight pennant race with Nazareth that year. After centuries without a pennant, I imagine there was quite a buzz about it that time of the year.