Total obedience to The Church

[_Mercury]

So it has come to my attention through Nephi that one can be a faithful member of the church and yet one does not have to adhere to the strict guidelines of the church mandated in almost every conference talk given. This brings up a few questions

* Is there a doctrinal delta between what "the church" teaches and what is taught in gospel doctrine? And if there is a delta, is it increasing or decreasing in mandated obedience and is there a geographical or even local shift in this delta?

* When is disobedience acceptable? IE what percentage of the rules given can you break and still be accepted in Mormon culture both officially and unofficially?

* Are those who do not accept the church as the sole provider of truth not understanding what it is to be a member of the church?

* Can you separate Mormonism from "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints"?

im quietly smiling, as I think this concept is at the heart of those who cannot see the end of the tunnel out of Mormonism and don't know they will be crossing Old Testament of it eventually. If not in body than in mind.

[_Nephi]

* Is there a doctrinal delta between what "the church" teaches and what is taught in gospel doctrine? And if there is a delta, is it increasing or decreasing in mandated obedience and is there a geographical or even local shift in this delta?

I think the topics taught upon in GD is setup by the church, and what is to be touched on is also setup by the church (I know it is outlined in the course book), but I do know that individuals vary from class to class as to what is taught, what is emphasized and what is ignored altogether. I taught a GD class last year, and the topic was David and Jonathan from Old Testament, and I brought up (not talked about in the teaching guide) that David and Jonathan are sometimes used as proof that God does not hate gay men, so long as their union is "married". I never said I agreed or disagreed with it, but put it out there for class discussion. I am sure that was well outside the delta.

I would believe there is a geographic shift (definitely for outside of Utah), as the teacher can only teach from their understanding and experiences, and geographies play a major role upon experiences of the group and formation of the culture as a whole. As for a local shift, there will always be variances from teacher to teacher. How big a delta? Depends on the teacher.

Last year, our GD teacher was a much older man who is very conservative in his viewpoints. He brought up the whole no rated R movie thing, and I stipulated that this is being taken way out of context, that the original message was given at a fireside meeting of youths, and not to adults. I furthermore stipulated many other things. Movies like Schindler's List were of absolute paramount importance for our children to see; Since when did our church start believing that our government's judgment was a good judge of moral values (why trust the government's rating system); if the Book of Mormon was made into a movie, it would be rated R. The last statement lead to the question, since its okay to read it, but not watch it, is it okay to read the letters in the back of penthouse magazines? Needless to say, he didn't like me very much, but I had many people in class come up to me afterwards and comment that they totally agree w/my whole ideas about rated R movies.

* When is disobedience acceptable? IE what percentage of the rules given can you break and still be accepted in Mormon culture both officially and unofficially?

I can't say there is an exact figure where there is a line drawn in the sand. It was told to me by a church leader (I will have to dig to find my reference) that ~30% of active members hold temple recommends. If this is true, I am sure some of the 70% are worthy to hold them, but have yet to be interviewed, but many are not worthy. These people are obviously still accepted (at least as the "active members" number is concerned). I am told that many are not temple worthy because of tithing issues, drinking issues, and a whole slew of others.

I think, also, your delta idea comes into play here. For instance, I doubt I would be disfellowshiped for drinking in this area, but I would be in Utah. So, geographically, what is "acceptable disobedience" is different depending upon what geographic area you live in.

* Are those who do not accept the church as the sole provider of truth not understanding what it is to be a member of the church?

I cannot answer for the church, but I would not disfellowship or excommunicate someone for thinking this. Especially if their reasoning for this is that they have yet to receive a testimony of the truthfulness of this statement, then why kick them out, or hurt them for this? That would make no sense whatsoever.

* Can you separate Mormonism from "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints"?

No better than separating Christian from any church that preaches of the salvation of Christ. Mormonism is just a blanket term to describe any church who believes in the teachings of the prophet Joseph Smith and (though not always) believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

I'm quietly smiling, as I think this concept is at the heart of those who cannot see the end of the tunnel out of Mormonism and don't know they will be crossing Old Testament of it eventually. If not in body than in mind.

Heh... are you alluding to anyone I would know here, Merc?