Mormonism and the false authority complex

[_Mercury]

The missionary arrogance thread and the mining speech and accompanying press release got me thinking about a common theme of LDS self importance and aggrandizement. More times than I can recount I was told in no uncertain terms that the bishop is the true representative for all that occurs within a wards boundary.

Not political leaders, not law enforcement, etc. This is especially poignant in cases of spousal abuse, rape, violence, etc. Mormon leaders minimize the involvement of ACTUAL authorities so as to implant further control and support the leaders avarice. How many victims have been told that the perpetrator will be dealt with by the church instead of the law? There are exceptions, of course but uneducated arrogant bishops have an interest in not reporting crimes to the law.

If there is an issue the Bishop is supposed to be aware of it and on top of it, at no time yielding to the actual authority of the matter. This is just so f*****g stupid, probably a throwback to utah when Mormons DID run everything via a gangland theocracy within their tentacled grasp.

Mormons believe that they are the end all be all of everything. This arrogant ideal carries over into PEC meetings every sunday morning as bishops and others dictate how ward members should be manipulated. Its very telling. I can't believe the gossip disguised as "concerned discussion" I witnessed as a missionary every single sunday morning in PEC. The false authority the bishops believed they had now makes my stomach turn.

[_Sethbag]

This may have been more true in the past than it is now. I know that for at least criminal activity such as child molestation, the church has come up with specific guidelines for church leaders which require involvement of the appropriate state authorities. No bishop will be justified by church policies for "handling" a case of alleged child molestation without calling the state.

But I know I've been exposed to attitudes like what you're talking about before. I recall being taught, on my mission, that we truly were God's representatives over the whole area we were assigned to. That, in a very real sense, my companion and I had spiritual authority and responsibility to ensure that everybody in our area heard the gospel. At the time I was humbled by that, wondering how in the world I could possibly ensure that everyone in my area was properly served by those entrusted with telling them about the LDS church, but now I do kind of chuckle to myself that I ever thought that I, as a missionary over in Switzerland, actually had any authority at all that was more than just a figment of my imagination.

[_Jason Bourne]

The missionary arrogance thread and the mining speech and accompanying press release got me thinking about a common theme of LDS self importance and aggrandizement. More times than I can recount I was told in no uncertain terms that the bishop is the true representative for all that occurs within a wards boundary.

Not political leaders, not law enforcement, etc. This is especially poignant in cases of spousal abuse, rape, violence, etc. Mormon leaders minimize the involvement of ACTUAL authorities so as to implant further control and support the leaders avarice. How many victims have been told that the perpetrator will be dealt with by the church instead of the law? There are exceptions, of course but uneducated arrogant bishops have an interest in not reporting crimes to the law.

If there is an issue the Bishop is supposed to be aware of it and on top of it, at no time yielding to the actual authority of the matter. This is just so f*****g stupid, probably a throwback to utah when Mormons DID run everything via a gangland theocracy within their tentacled grasp.

Mormons believe that they are the end all be all of everything. This arrogant ideal carries over into PEC meetings every sunday morning as bishops and others dictate how ward members should be manipulated. Its very telling. I can't believe the gossip disguised as "concerned discussion" I witnessed as a missionary every single sunday morning in PEC. The false authority the bishops believed they had now makes my stomach turn.

I am sorry but this one is just over the top. Why should I believe you when I have experience far beyond your with this and in most cases things are just the opposite of what you state. Oh there are a few idiot power hungry leaders that may fit what you describe but it is not the norm at all. And what the hell were you doing as a missionary in PEC. The only time missionaries attend PEC is for a brief few minutes to report their missionary work. TO answer your question about hwo many times the perp is told the church rather then the law will deal with it is said? Almost never.

[_Mercury]

The missionary arrogance thread and the mining speech and accompanying press release got me thinking about a common theme of LDS self importance and aggrandizement. More times than I can recount I was told in no uncertain terms that the bishop is the true representative for all that occurs within a wards boundary.

Not political leaders, not law enforcement, etc. This is especially poignant in cases of spousal abuse, rape, violence, etc. Mormon leaders minimize the involvement of ACTUAL authorities so as to implant further control and support the leaders avarice. How many victims have been told that the perpetrator will be dealt with by the church instead of the law? There are exceptions, of course but uneducated arrogant bishops have an interest in not reporting crimes to the law.

If there is an issue the Bishop is supposed to be aware of it and on top of it, at no time yielding to the actual authority of the matter. This is just so f*****g stupid, probably a throwback to utah when Mormons DID run everything via a gangland theocracy within their tentacled grasp.

Mormons believe that they are the end all be all of everything. This arrogant ideal carries over into PEC meetings every sunday morning as bishops and others dictate how ward members should be manipulated. Its very telling. I can't believe the gossip disguised as "concerned discussion" I witnessed as a missionary every single sunday morning in PEC. The false authority the bishops believed they had now makes my stomach turn.

I am sorry but this one is just over the top. Why should I believe you when I have experience far beyond your with this and in most cases things are just the opposite of what you state. Oh there are a few idiot power hungry leaders that may fit what you describe but it is not the norm at all. And what the hell were you doing as a missionary in PEC. The only time missionaries attend PEC is for a brief few minutes to report their missionary work. TO answer your question about hwo many times the perp is told the church rather then the law will deal with it is said? Almost never.

Jason, there have been several lawsuits in which the church was held liable for not reporting abuse to the law. One that comes to mind is the case in oregon fairly recently. My personal experience as well shows clearly that the behavior of the fools in charge of the church care more about them taking "control" of a situation. in their minds the bishop knows better than the cops.

I know you are wrong and there is nothing you can say to change my experiences even though your patent "uhh...no it doesn't" response is expected.

Wake up and smell the cult Jason.

[_Sethbag]

Merc, keep in mind that the lawsuits (at least the ones I've seen) are about things that happened 20 or 30 years ago. I think it's fair to say that the church has wisened up since then on the issue of bishops handling things that are in fact serious crimes. I've seen the CHI online in the last year or so (perhaps not the latest and greatest edition, I don't know) and I do know that there are policies in there for calling up the church HQ and getting the lawyerly guidance about what needs to be reported, and to which state agency, etc. I don't think it's fair to say that bishops today handle what are actually serious crimes without involving the state, whatever may have happened in the past. And to the extent that a given bishop does so today, he is going against policy, and is a dumbass.

[_Yoda]

And to the extent that a given bishop does so today, he is going against policy, and is a dumbass.

LOL!

I love it!

Well-spoken, Sethbag!

As to the OP....Sethbag is right. My brother in law was recently released from his calling as bishop. There were several cases in his ward where abuse occurred and he contacted the police and DSS immediately.

[_Sethbag]

I had an aquaintance in the last state I lived who started to confess, to an LDS Family Services councilor, that he'd inappropriately fondled his daughter. The councilor stopped him and warned him that if he revealed anything regarding children that was a crime, he would be forced to contact the state authorities. My friend said that was OK with that, and so he and the councilor actually called up the state department of child welfare, or whatever it's called, right then and there, on the phone. He then introduced himself on the phone and said he wanted to confess to having fondled his daughter. The state got the local DA involved, he was actually arrested by the police and questioned about it, etc. The LDS family services councilor also contacted the bishop, and the bishop and stake president got involved. In the end, he pleaded guilty in court (I attended the court hearing where he did so) and was sentenced to a prison term. He did three years and is now out. I haven't talked to him since he was in the big house, so I don't know if he is back in the church or not.

I know this wasn't a bishop or a stake president he initially confessed to, but an LDS family services councilor, but it demonstrates that the LDS procedures in place required notification of state officials if any information came out incriminating someone in a serious crime like this. I saw nothing in how this was handled that I could reproach the church of.

[_Jason Bourne]

Jason, there have been several lawsuits in which the church was held liable for not reporting abuse to the law. One that comes to mind is the case in oregon fairly recently. My personal experience as well shows clearly that the behavior of the fools in charge of the church care more about them taking "control" of a situation. in their minds the bishop knows better than the cops.

As noted the cases are isolated and not the norm.

I know you are wrong and there is nothing you can say to change my experiences even though your patent "uhh...no it doesn't" response is expected.

How many years have you served in any leadership, attended PEC, Bishopric meeting, stake high council meetings and so on?

Wake up and smell the cult Jason.

Get a shrink merc. Your anger distorts your ability to see things clearly.

[_Jason Bourne]

Jason, there have been several lawsuits in which the church was held liable for not reporting abuse to the law. One that comes to mind is the case in oregon fairly recently. My personal experience as well shows clearly that the behavior of the fools in charge of the church care more about them taking "control" of a situation. in their minds the bishop knows better than the cops.

As noted the cases are isolated and not the norm.

I know you are wrong and there is nothing you can say to change my experiences even though your patent "uhh...no it doesn't" response is expected.

How many years have you served in any leadership, attended PEC, Bishopric meeting, stake high council meetings and so on? In other words what experience fo you really have?

Wake up and smell the cult Jason.

Get a shrink merc. Your anger distorts your ability to see things clearly.

[_Gadianton]

http://www.szoborpark.hu/index.php?ContentId=12&Lang=hu

takes a while to load, but this is what SLC or at least BYU is going to look like in a few years.