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What I learned in Gospel Doctrine last Sunday
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:55 pm
by _Scottie
Ok, yes, I actually went to church last week. For any of you women that think you don't hold an immense amount of power over your men, think again...
That aside, one of the points of the Gospel Doctrine class was that Adam offered the first lamb up to God without knowing why.
Moses 5:6 wrote:And after many days an angel of the Lord appeared unto Adam, saying: Why dost thou offer sacrifices unto the Lord? And Adam said unto him: I know not, save the Lord commanded me.
The teacher spoke about what great faith Adam had to do what the Lord commanded even though he didn't know the reason, and that we should all have such unquestioning faith.
In my mind, I thought, "Yeah, just like the terrorists do."
Why in the world would anyone teach this?? It is such an incredibly dangerous thing to teach. Blind obedience can never be good, yet that is exactly what they want.
The church wants unquestioning authority over you. If God's servant (a.k.a., Pres Hinkley) asks you to do something, YOU DO IT!! Nowhere in that lesson did it say that you should pray to get your own witness. It was completely 100% do what we tell you to do, no questions asked.
So, for all of you apologists out there saying that this isn't being taught, here is proof that it is.
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:03 pm
by _Runtu
Silly man. Blind obedience is only bad when you have corrupt leaders.
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:18 pm
by _harmony
Runtu wrote:Silly man. Blind obedience is only bad when you have corrupt leaders.
And the way we'd know if we had corrupt leaders is if they won't let the members see what they do with the Lord's money.
Oh wait. The ones we have now won't let us see what they do with the Lord's money! We're supposed to trust them.
Piffle.
Re: What I learned in Gospel Doctrine last Sunday
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:31 pm
by _why me
Scottie wrote:Ok, yes, I actually went to church last week. For any of you women that think you don't hold an immense amount of power over your men, think again...
That aside, one of the points of the Gospel Doctrine class was that Adam offered the first lamb up to God without knowing why.
Moses 5:6 wrote:And after many days an angel of the Lord appeared unto Adam, saying: Why dost thou offer sacrifices unto the Lord? And Adam said unto him: I know not, save the Lord commanded me.
The teacher spoke about what great faith Adam had to do what the Lord commanded even though he didn't know the reason, and that we should all have such unquestioning faith.
In my mind, I thought, "Yeah, just like the terrorists do."
Why in the world would anyone teach this?? It is such an incredibly dangerous thing to teach. Blind obedience can never be good, yet that is exactly what they want.
The church wants unquestioning authority over you. If God's servant (a.k.a., Pres Hinkley) asks you to do something, YOU DO IT!! Nowhere in that lesson did it say that you should pray to get your own witness. It was completely 100% do what we tell you to do, no questions asked.
So, for all of you apologists out there saying that this isn't being taught, here is proof that it is.
Of course, you could have opened your mouth and made your comment. I am sure that it would have provoked a good discussion. But most likely you said nothing.
I am not sure that adam was practicing blind obedience here and I cannot say that your illogical leap was in the right direction. First, the lord and adam had a pretty close personal relationship. He spoke to adam and commanded him to do something without him knowing why. It was a test. No problem. It take faith.
The end result: when asked to do something by god without being told why, it is wise to obey, especially if it comes from his own mouth. However, any argument can be taking to extremes as you have done. For terrorists, asking why makes no difference. Nothing would change.
Re: What I learned in Gospel Doctrine last Sunday
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:33 pm
by _silentkid
Scottie wrote:The church wants unquestioning authority over you. If God's servant (a.k.a., Pres Hinkley) asks you to do something, YOU DO IT!! Nowhere in that lesson did it say that you should pray to get your own witness. It was completely 100% do what we tell you to do, no questions asked.
So, for all of you apologists out there saying that this isn't being taught, here is proof that it is.
If one does pray to confirm what a leader has taught or commanded and recieves a "stupor of thought", it's not because what the leader has said is wrong, it's because the one doing the praying hasn't humbled himself/herself sufficiently to recieve the confirmation. In other words, the leader is always correct and inspired and it's the members fault if they don't come to the same conclusion. What a system!
Re: What I learned in Gospel Doctrine last Sunday
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:39 pm
by _Scottie
why me wrote:Scottie wrote:Ok, yes, I actually went to church last week. For any of you women that think you don't hold an immense amount of power over your men, think again...
That aside, one of the points of the Gospel Doctrine class was that Adam offered the first lamb up to God without knowing why.
Moses 5:6 wrote:And after many days an angel of the Lord appeared unto Adam, saying: Why dost thou offer sacrifices unto the Lord? And Adam said unto him: I know not, save the Lord commanded me.
The teacher spoke about what great faith Adam had to do what the Lord commanded even though he didn't know the reason, and that we should all have such unquestioning faith.
In my mind, I thought, "Yeah, just like the terrorists do."
Why in the world would anyone teach this?? It is such an incredibly dangerous thing to teach. Blind obedience can never be good, yet that is exactly what they want.
The church wants unquestioning authority over you. If God's servant (a.k.a., Pres Hinkley) asks you to do something, YOU DO IT!! Nowhere in that lesson did it say that you should pray to get your own witness. It was completely 100% do what we tell you to do, no questions asked.
So, for all of you apologists out there saying that this isn't being taught, here is proof that it is.
Of course, you could have opened your mouth and made your comment. I am sure that it would have provoked a good discussion. But most likely you said nothing.
I am not sure that adam was practicing blind obedience here and I cannot say that your illogical leap was in the right direction. First, the lord and adam had a pretty close personal relationship. He spoke to adam and commanded him to do something without him knowing why. It was a test. No problem. It take faith.
The end result: when asked to do something by god without being told why, it is wise to obey, especially if it comes from his own mouth. However, any argument can be taking to extremes as you have done. For terrorists, asking why makes no difference. Nothing would change.
Yeah, that's pretty good advice.
Oh, by the way, have you heard of Ron Lafferty??
Re: What I learned in Gospel Doctrine last Sunday
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:41 pm
by _why me
silentkid wrote:Scottie wrote:The church wants unquestioning authority over you. If God's servant (a.k.a., Pres Hinkley) asks you to do something, YOU DO IT!! Nowhere in that lesson did it say that you should pray to get your own witness. It was completely 100% do what we tell you to do, no questions asked.
So, for all of you apologists out there saying that this isn't being taught, here is proof that it is.
If one does pray to confirm what a leader has taught or commanded and recieves a "stupor of thought", it's not because what the leader has said is wrong, it's because the one doing the praying hasn't humbled himself/herself sufficiently to recieve the confirmation. In other words, the leader is always correct and inspired and it's the members fault if they don't come to the same conclusion. What a system!
This is perhaps just a tad simplistic. No one needs to follow the advice. One has free will to decide if the advice or request is followed. However, a simplistic request about a calling is one thing but an act of terrorism is quite another. One must make differentials.
And in terms of Adam, well...he did have an one on one relatiionship with god, according to the Bible.
Re: What I learned in Gospel Doctrine last Sunday
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:44 pm
by _why me
Scottie wrote:why me wrote:Scottie wrote:Ok, yes, I actually went to church last week. For any of you women that think you don't hold an immense amount of power over your men, think again...
That aside, one of the points of the Gospel Doctrine class was that Adam offered the first lamb up to God without knowing why.
Moses 5:6 wrote:And after many days an angel of the Lord appeared unto Adam, saying: Why dost thou offer sacrifices unto the Lord? And Adam said unto him: I know not, save the Lord commanded me.
The teacher spoke about what great faith Adam had to do what the Lord commanded even though he didn't know the reason, and that we should all have such unquestioning faith.
In my mind, I thought, "Yeah, just like the terrorists do."
Why in the world would anyone teach this?? It is such an incredibly dangerous thing to teach. Blind obedience can never be good, yet that is exactly what they want.
The church wants unquestioning authority over you. If God's servant (a.k.a., Pres Hinkley) asks you to do something, YOU DO IT!! Nowhere in that lesson did it say that you should pray to get your own witness. It was completely 100% do what we tell you to do, no questions asked.
So, for all of you apologists out there saying that this isn't being taught, here is proof that it is.
Of course, you could have opened your mouth and made your comment. I am sure that it would have provoked a good discussion. But most likely you said nothing.
I am not sure that adam was practicing blind obedience here and I cannot say that your illogical leap was in the right direction. First, the lord and adam had a pretty close personal relationship. He spoke to adam and commanded him to do something without him knowing why. It was a test. No problem. It take faith.
The end result: when asked to do something by god without being told why, it is wise to obey, especially if it comes from his own mouth. However, any argument can be taking to extremes as you have done. For terrorists, asking why makes no difference. Nothing would change.
Yeah, that's pretty good advice.
Oh, by the way, have you heard of Ron Lafferty??
NO. Who was he? I know that there are exceptions to every rule. But questioning an angel or god would be an interesting prospect. However, if a person sees angels and hears the voice of god, I cannot see anyone asking questions about what god has asked of them.
Re: What I learned in Gospel Doctrine last Sunday
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:45 pm
by _silentkid
why me wrote:This is perhaps just a tad simplistic. No one needs to follow the advice. One has free will to decide if the advice or request is followed.
I like to keep it simple. You're right, no one needs to follow the advice. The one thing I really enjoy about not following the leaders' advice is the label of apostate that comes along with it. ;)
Re: What I learned in Gospel Doctrine last Sunday
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:00 pm
by _Scottie
why me wrote:Scottie wrote:Oh, by the way, have you heard of Ron Lafferty??
NO. Who was he?
In July 1984, in a Utah town called American Fork, Dan Lafferty entered the home of his brother Allen, who was at work, and killed Allen's wife and 15-month-old daughter. Dan, now serving a life sentence, has no remorse about the murders and no trouble explaining them. His older brother, Ron, who assisted in the crime and is now on death row, had received a revelation from God mandating that Brenda and Erica Lafferty be ''removed'' so that, as God put it, ''my work might go forward.''