you TBMs: do the Prophets ever actually speak as a prophet?

[_Sethbag]

We're all familiar with things LDS Prophets and Apostles have spoken in the past which LDS apologists have now disclaimed as mere personal opinion. That's a topic for another thread. What I'd like to know is, do the Prophets or Apostles ever actually speak as Prophets?

That is, do they ever actually reveal to us knowledge which they received from God, which we could not have known otherwise? Do they ever explain how something works? Or tell us more about the Celestial Kingdom, or whatever?

Ok, first I must stipulate, I'm not interested in the "prophecies" such as stating that Jesus is the Christ, that Joseph Smith was a true prophet, that the Book of Mormon is true, that Joseph Smith saw God, that we should have food storage, that sin is bad, or anything else in that vein. I'm talking about real, honest to goodness "thus saith the Lord <insert something really cool and useful which we would not have known if God didn't tell us through his Prophet stuff here>."

Have we got any examples of stuff the Prophets tell us, which they are passing on from God? Ok, so Brigham Young was just speaking his personal opinion when he said human beings probably live on the Sun. Ok, I can accept that. Is there something else that Brigham Young told us that actually did come from God? Has Gordon B. Hinckley actually told us anything neat from God?

[_Zoidberg]

The LDS apologists are wrong, of course. Ezra Taft Benson, a.k.a. the prophet, said: "The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything." That was before he became a prophet himself, though, so perhaps he later found out firsthand that it's the LDS apologists who were right all along, not the Lord's annointed.

However, Brigham Young, a.k.a. the prophet, said: "when compared with the living oracles those books are nothing to me; those books do not convey the word of God direct to us now, as do the words of a Prophet or a man bearing the Holy Priesthood in our day and generation." Although that was said before BY actually became a prophet himself, he did have the Holy Priesthood at the time, and thus the Lord didn't hesitate to choose him as a mouthpiece, which is confirmed by the prophet Joseph saying: "Brother Brigham has told you the word of the Lord, and he has told you the truth."

The LDS apologists are preaching false doctrine by and by. Perhaps their priesthood has been taken from them, if they are male (and we know how clueless females are when it comes to discussing things pertaining to priesthood authority; their time is much better spent preparing doughnuts, according to Russell M. Nelson, who, no doubt, has the Holy Priesthood still).

Another piece of false doctrine is that God never changes his mind. Of course he does. Remember how he said (through Joseph) that a prophet is not always a prophet? But he also said (through Joseph) that BY was right concerning the words of a prophet (or any priesthood holder, for that matter) conveying the words of God. And Ezra Taft Benson (who, no doubt, held the Priesthood in 1980) later clarified that the prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything. So it's really the apologists that are speaking as men when they say the Adam-God doctrine was personal opinion.

It's clear that God is currently going through an identity crisis. He is desperately trying to forget his lowly beginnings as a mortal man, which became clear when he said the following through GBH: "I don't know that we teach it. I don’t know that we emphasize it. I haven’t heard it discussed for a long time in public discourse. I don’t know. I don’t know all the circumstances under which that statement was made. I understand the philosophical background behind it. But I don’t know a lot about it and I don’t know that others know a lot about it." Oh yeah, and it follows from that statement that God is not omniscient, either. At least God currently thinks he's not omniscient. He may change his mind on he subject later.

As for human beings living on the Sun, I don't even see any contradiction there. Has any prophet actually said that there aren't any human beings on the Sun? I've never heard it. Therefore, it's doctrine and science will probably confirm it later.

But I should probably make it clear that my opinion and interpretation are really worthless because I have never held the Holy Priesthood since I don't have the right body parts for it. So I'm going to go back to making doughnuts. Anyone have a good recipe?

[_Sethbag]

Hmmmmmmm, donuts!

Joseph Smith acted like God was talking to, and telling himself stuff just about every day. He'd come up with a revelation where thus saying Alpha and Omega, even Jesus Christ, at the drop of a hat. Now it seems Gordon B. Hinckley can't get a revelation about anything at all, or if he can, he's keeping it to himself, which would seem to contradict his public role as Jesus' conduit on Earth for channeling light and knowledge to all of God's children.

I just want to know what the last, say, dozen Prophets have actually revealed from God, which the church will still stand by, and accept as having come from God, and not from that man's own personal opinion. It would seem at least the overwhelming bulk of so-called revelation has ended up being that man's opinion. I personally can't even think of anything that they've revealed from God that people are willing to stand by. I guess the "revelation" that it would be wise to keep a year's supply of food was about the last big "revelation" I can think of, and that's, well, kinda blah IMHO. It's more along the lines of some good advice than anything neato we learned about God that only his Prophet on Earth could have told us.

[_guy sajer]

Lest we not forget the wisdom distilled down from on high to us through God's annointed GB Hinkley on the evils of multiple ear piercings and tatoos. We should also mention GBH's wise, time-immemorial wisdom on Raves and R-rated movies. And of course, through our prophets we know that God is really, really bothered by homosexuals and so-called feminists and intellectuals.

We also have to take into account the fact that we are not currently living what God has already commanded, so he has temporarily withheld his divine wisdom from us until we do. In fact, I hear from my sources at COB the rumor that God is waiting until the very last multiple ear ring is removed from the very last ear lobe among the Saints before he gives us his next really important revelation.

Oh that the blessed day arrives quickly and that the sinning harlots do maketh haste in removing their offending ear rings.

[_Some Schmo]

The LDS apologists are wrong, of course. Ezra Taft Benson, a.k.a. the prophet, said: "The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything." That was before he became a prophet himself, though, so perhaps he later found out firsthand that it's the LDS apologists who were right all along, not the Lord's annointed.

However, Brigham Young, a.k.a. the prophet, said: "when compared with the living oracles those books are nothing to me; those books do not convey the word of God direct to us now, as do the words of a Prophet or a man bearing the Holy Priesthood in our day and generation." Although that was said before BY actually became a prophet himself, he did have the Holy Priesthood at the time, and thus the Lord didn't hesitate to choose him as a mouthpiece, which is confirmed by the prophet Joseph saying: "Brother Brigham has told you the word of the Lord, and he has told you the truth."

The LDS apologists are preaching false doctrine by and by. Perhaps their priesthood has been taken from them, if they are male (and we know how clueless females are when it comes to discussing things pertaining to priesthood authority; their time is much better spent preparing doughnuts, according to Russell M. Nelson, who, no doubt, has the Holy Priesthood still).

Another piece of false doctrine is that God never changes his mind. Of course he does. Remember how he said (through Joseph) that a prophet is not always a prophet? But he also said (through Joseph) that BY was right concerning the words of a prophet (or any priesthood holder, for that matter) conveying the words of God. And Ezra Taft Benson (who, no doubt, held the Priesthood in 1980) later clarified that the prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything. So it's really the apologists that are speaking as men when they say the Adam-God doctrine was personal opinion.

It's clear that God is currently going through an identity crisis. He is desperately trying to forget his lowly beginnings as a mortal man, which became clear when he said the following through GBH: "I don't know that we teach it. I don’t know that we emphasize it. I haven’t heard it discussed for a long time in public discourse. I don’t know. I don’t know all the circumstances under which that statement was made. I understand the philosophical background behind it. But I don’t know a lot about it and I don’t know that others know a lot about it." Oh yeah, and it follows from that statement that God is not omniscient, either. At least God currently thinks he's not omniscient. He may change his mind on he subject later.

As for human beings living on the Sun, I don't even see any contradiction there. Has any prophet actually said that there aren't any human beings on the Sun? I've never heard it. Therefore, it's doctrine and science will probably confirm it later.

But I should probably make it clear that my opinion and interpretation are really worthless because I have never held the Holy Priesthood since I don't have the right body parts for it. So I'm going to go back to making doughnuts. Anyone have a good recipe?

Most excellent, hilarious post!

Maybe god will reveal to us the next great donut recipe, in all his infinite wisdom. Of course, you'll make the donuts, DCP will eat them, they won't be as good as the ones he eats from Krispy Kream, and he'll claim that it was only the prophet's opinion (probably just his wife's recipe), and not a divine recipe from god.

[_SatanWasSetUp]

I think the only time prophets speak as prophes is when they are quoting scripture, or when they are paraphrasing scripture, or interpreting scripture in a way that most everyone agrees with. Anytime they go out on a limb with something new and creative it is just his opinion. So it makes one wonder why we need prophets if we already have scriptures and guys with opinions.

[_moksha]

They have made prophecies and said stuff was the will of God in the past.

[_SatanWasSetUp]

They have made prophecies and said stuff was the will of God in the past.

That was just their opinion.

[_moksha]

They have made prophecies and said stuff was the will of God in the past.

That was just their opinion.

You mean God does not have a thing about too many earrings or colored shirts? What about plaid?

On a more serious note, what about ending the racial purity ban? That seemed rather godly.

[_evolving]

On a more serious note, what about ending the racial purity ban? That seemed rather godly.

it is my understanding the 1978 revelation to remove the race restriction was a painful, long process. it was discussed and passed over many times during at least a 20 year time frame(I will review Quinn's EOP later).

my only point being it took Joseph all of 35 seconds to make up his mind when god wanted him to do something - why the 20 year process for the Priesthood ban lift ??

the 78' edict was good even goodly, but inserting god into that one is a stretch in my opinion.