Hell Week at the MTC

Post by **_karl61** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:06 pm

Today I was thinking about certain things the Church would rather people not know, or not bring up. I was thinking that maybe they should start the MTC by telling the missionaries "by the end of the week more than fifty percent of you will not be here" and let Don Bradley and Brent Metcalfe and Christopher Higgins and others come in and explain their concerns about the Church and it's history. At the end of the week missionaries would know that Joseph Smith married teenage girls, other men's wives, led raids in missouri and what the issues are with the Book of Abraham, etc. To go through Hell Week you would have to be very prepared mentally and spiritually. You would be mentally and spiritually challenged to the core. They could say that of the "fifty percent who do not stay, twenty five percent will never go back to church". This way when you see a missionary on the street you would know that he knows the history but still believes in his mission.

Post by **_karl61** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 4:14 am

Post by **_Dr. Shades** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:01 am

As (I believe) Sethbag pointed out, "what's in it for the church?"

Post by **_karl61** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:31 pm

Dr. Shades wrote:As (I believe) Sethbag pointed out, "what's in it for the church?"

they get the missionaries that really want to be there. Of course on the other hand, those that leave could do a lot of damage as they explain to members in the ward why they left. I think someone wrote that DCP thought members should get a little history that is not faith promoting to sort of innoculate them later from having something sprung on them. No one in the Church should graduate seminary and not know that Joseph Smith tried to pick up on Orson Hydes wife, before she married Orson, then sent him to a mission to Palestine, and then married his wife while he was gone. I don't even think you can call it married since it was illegal and not a valid marriage when viewed by the state. Maybe it got him some bootie and more power. I've seen two different responses by Orson when he got back: one where he basically was putty in Joseph's hand and said basically if it's what Joseph wants then he must abide by it. I've also seen a response where he was very angry and distraught. The good thing is that after Joseph was killed that all marriages had to be redone in the Nauvoo temple and Orson's wife chose Orson. She always chose Orson when he was available.

Post by **_Livingstone22** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:52 am

I think the rather obvious problem here is that they would have to say "look at the person on your left, then at the person on your right, then look at 100 other people around you. Only one of you will be here at the end of the week."

Post by **_Sethbag** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 6:53 am

I really like the idea, but the problem is, the church gets more missionaries to stick it out without doing this, than they would probably get if they did do it, so there's nothing in it for the church to do this. They know that without this most of the missionaries will complete their mission and like 80% of RMs will stay in the church their whole life. Why rock the boat?

Post by **_Bond...James Bond** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:41 am

Sounds like an excellent way to knock them out of (at least) 75% of their missionaries. Why the heck would the LDS church deprive themselves of all that free labor?

Post by **_karl61** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:21 am

I remember as a teenager seeing a drawing of Orson Hyde dedicating Palestine for the Return of the Jews. Then we see the Jews return and the state of Israel is created and the Church brings up Orson Hyde's mission and the restoration. I didn't know that Joseph Smith married Orson Hyde's wife while he was in Palestine. This history should not be new to an LDS missionary. I will tell you this: that even though I was very young, gullible, shy, and depressed, I would have likely taken a lot more time deciding and likely would have not gone into the mission field had I known this. The one thing that is interesting is that something like this history, that shocks people, is usually just the beginning as they start their own surfing journey through the LDS history they never knew about. One book brings up ten more issues and those ten issues bring out many more. Once the cat is out of the bag it's tough getting him back in as he is usually up a tree and on a branch the Church can't get to. They usually just end up shooting (excommunicating) the cat and and then they walk off whistling an LDS song.

Post by **_harmony** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 2:50 pm

thestyleguy wrote:I remember as a teenager seeing a drawing of Orson Hyde dedicating Palestine for the Return of the Jews. Then we see the Jews return and the state of Israel is created and the Church brings up Orson Hyde's mission and the restoration. I didn't know that Joseph Smith married Orson Hyde's wife while he was in Palestine. This history should not be new to an LDS missionary. I will tell you this: that even though I was very young, gullible, shy, and depressed, I would have likely taken a lot more time deciding and likely would have not gone into the mission field had I known this. The one thing that is interesting is that something like this history, that shocks people, is usually just the beginning as they start their own surfing journey through the LDS history they never knew about. One book brings up ten more issues and those ten issues bring out many more. Once the cat is out of the bag it's tough getting him back in as he is usually up a tree and on a branch the Church can't get to. They usually just end up shooting (excommunicating) the cat and and then they walk off whistling an LDS song.

And do you think your reaction would have been unique?

What our current church leaders need to do is revamp the Primary curriculum to include this stuff, and then every subsequent curriculum after that. Then no one would ever be blindsided again. They could control the flow of information just like they do now, except they'd be upfront and truthful about it instead of hiding half their history. The leaders would be portrayed as real men struggling with real issues, instead of cardboard cutouts. The idea has real potential, just not in the MTC. The MTC is too late.

Post by **_karl61** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:15 pm

some more thoughts:

1) somehow I see confessions skyrocketing for young men too. They would do anything but promote the Gospel according to Joseph Smith.

2)a sad thing is that you wish those young men that came home early in the 70's, 80's 90's and now, but didn't know this, would know it as they likely wouldn't feel so bad. I felt terrible after coming home early in the early 80's. It just added to the backpack (weight) that I carried until I just mentally broke. I'm starting to understand what my problems were as I mature and understand my strengths: sitting in a home and talking to mr and mrs smith with that thousand mile stare saying I'm elder so and so and I represent the church. I have a testimony of the restored gospel. Joseph Smith was prophet. Having to say I have a testimony or this belief when you don't, and say other things that you really have never had time to think about or really understand, can cause someone distress, because you know the difference between a truth and a lie. Young men and ladies would think very hard before they decided to be a missionary, and the best part is they would have real arguments with their mother or father as to why they don't want to go. To say I'm not going to promote someone's thoughts who married other men's wives and teenage daughters when they were gone on missions is a very powerful argument. To know the real issues with the Book of Abraham is another and there are a lot of others too.