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A very fascinating tidbit was brought to my attention by one of my so-called "informants":

Agent X wrote:I hate to fuel any fires, but I wanted to bring to your attention something rcrocket said on MAD:

"Horizontal criticism, where the recipient of the criticism can do nothing about the criticism, is just gossip." it's the first reply to asbestosman's thread on criticizing leaders.

I was left wondering whether, even though he wasn't a leader, discussions of mike quinn between his SP and others were horizontal or vertical.

(edited slightly by Mr. S.)

Indeed, this is a trenchant observation. Were the "criticisms" doled out by DCP and his mouthy pals regarding Quinn's private sex life "vertical," or "horizontal"? Were BKP's attacks on him "horizontal," or "vertical"? Based on this definition of Bob's, I really am left with the impression that Bob's and DCP's and Paul Hanks's "horizontal criticisms," when spoken/told to other folks, such as DCP's friend, or the various people on these messageboards, are little more than idle and cruelly-intended gossip. Here is yet another strike against the Good Professor and his ilk. Further, this reinforces the more right-minded idea that Church related derision and criticism really should be confined to the "offender" and his/her ecclesiastical leader, and it shouldn't be passed around for the amusement of judgmental TBMs.

Mister Scratch wrote:A very fascinating tidbit was brought to my attention by one of my so-called "informants":

Agent X wrote:I hate to fuel any fires, but I wanted to bring to your attention something rcrocket said on MAD:

"Horizontal criticism, where the recipient of the criticism can do nothing about the criticism, is just gossip." it's the first reply to asbestosman's thread on criticizing leaders.

I was left wondering whether, even though he wasn't a leader, discussions of mike quinn between his SP and others were horizontal or vertical.

(edited slightly by Mr. S.)

Indeed, this is a trenchant observation. Were the "criticisms" doled out by DCP and his mouthy pals regarding Quinn's private sex life "vertical," or "horizontal"? Were BKP's attacks on him "horizontal," or "vertical"? Based on this definition of Bob's, I really am left with the impression that Bob's and DCP's and Paul Hanks's "horizontal criticisms," when spoken/told to other folks, such as DCP's friend, or the various people on these messageboards, are little more than idle and cruelly-intended gossip. Here is yet another strike against the Good Professor and his ilk. Further, this reinforces the more right-minded idea that Church related derision and criticism really should be confined to the "offender" and his/her ecclesiastical leader, and it shouldn't be passed around for the amusement of judgmental TBMs.

Taking the facts as you present them (and they are not true), Dr. Quinn and the stake president were talking about a matter of public knowledge, and one which Quinn did not deny and had already come out about. Quinn was a public figure -- a noted author. It is not gossip, unless you think it gossip to talk amongst yourselves about Monica Lewisnky and Bill Clinton.

rcrocket

Mister Scratch wrote:A very fascinating tidbit was brought to my attention by one of my so-called "informants":

I'm sure they're just a harmless clipping service.

rcrocket wrote:

Mister Scratch wrote:A very fascinating tidbit was brought to my attention by one of my so-called "informants":

Agent X wrote:I hate to fuel any fires, but I wanted to bring to your attention something rcrocket said on MAD:

"Horizontal criticism, where the recipient of the criticism can do nothing about the criticism, is just gossip." it's the first reply to asbestosman's thread on criticizing leaders.

I was left wondering whether, even though he wasn't a leader, discussions of mike quinn between his SP and others were horizontal or vertical.

(edited slightly by Mr. S.)

Indeed, this is a trenchant observation. Were the "criticisms" doled out by DCP and his mouthy pals regarding Quinn's private sex life "vertical," or "horizontal"? Were BKP's attacks on him "horizontal," or "vertical"? Based on this definition of Bob's, I really am left with the impression that Bob's and DCP's and Paul Hanks's "horizontal criticisms," when spoken/told to other folks, such as DCP's friend, or the various people on these messageboards, are little more than idle and cruelly-intended gossip. Here is yet another strike against the Good Professor and his ilk. Further, this reinforces the more right-minded idea that Church related derision and criticism really should be confined to the "offender" and his/her ecclesiastical leader, and it shouldn't be passed around for the amusement of judgmental TBMs.

Taking the facts as you present them (and they are not true), Dr. Quinn and the stake president were talking about a matter of public knowledge, and one which Quinn did not deny and had already come out about. Quinn was a public figure -- a noted author. It is not gossip, unless you think it gossip to talk amongst yourselves about Monica Lewisnky and Bill Clinton.

rcrocket

It's not gossip, you say? Then how were the people to whom SP Hanks told this stuff "in a position to do something"? Or do you consider the malicious spreading of these stories on FAIR, MAD, and elsewhere to be "doing something"? Further, I *do* think yapping about the Lewinski-Clinton thing smacked very much of gossip. And anyhow: I hardly think that your and Prof. P.'s rank gossipmongering about Quinn has anywhere near the merit that Lewinskigate did. You're in over your head, Bob. You ought to just confess your wrongdoing, and to admit to your disgusting double standard. Or, perhaps you'd care to explain how the SP's blabbing constituted "vertical" criticism?

I was thinking about why a church court was held due to his interest in males over females when they say that they are only interested in sex outside of marriage. What was he doing in public that would suggest this? when you have middle eastern men giving each other a kiss on the cheek all the time then is this seen as a interest in men? Didn't Paul say something to greet people with a kiss. I don't see LDS men or missionaries following that counsel.

Agent X wrote:I hate to fuel any fires, but I wanted to bring to your attention something rcrocket said on MAD:

"Horizontal criticism, where the recipient of the criticism can do nothing about the criticism, is just gossip." it's the first reply to asbestosman's thread on criticizing leaders.

I was left wondering whether, even though he wasn't a leader, discussions of mike quinn between his SP and others were horizontal or vertical.

Some comments:

1. When was this comment made? Because I seem to remember that Crock said he never posts on MAD.

2. I'm confused about the definitions of horizontal and vertical criticism. Could someone spell that out for me?

3. How does one make the leap from horizontal criticism to gossip?

4. There's nothing that says LDS leaders can't come here and defend themselves. Personally, I'd be tickled to see Elder Oakes come defend his comment about soccer teams.

rcrocket wrote:... Dr. Quinn and the stake president were talking about a matter of public knowledge, and one which Quinn did not deny and had already come out about.

Utter BS -- Quinn's SP went after him in 1993; Quinn didn't publicly come out until 1996. Gossip about Quinn by you and your ilk did not make it "public knowledge."