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Many apologists are ever-eager to find a flaw in science. Not that it's too hard, science is filled with flaws. It would seem, rather than showing how good religion is, their only option is to show science is just as bad. A typical thread, here, on FAIR/MAD:

http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index. ... hl=science

And a typical quote:

But, of course. There is no subjectivity in science. There is no subjectivity in science. There is no subjectivity in science. There is no subjectivity in science. And so on. Maybe if you chant it long enough it'll become true. Nothing "religious" about that, huh?

Faith is the upmost human failing that science has been unsuccessful in erradicating while faith is the first principle of the Mormon Gospel.

The very foundation of religion, faith, is responsible for the failures of science.

And this isn't what the skeptics are arguing, it's coming right from the apologists! Blows your mind, doesn't it?

Gadianton wrote:[...]

And a typical quote:

But, of course. There is no subjectivity in science. There is no subjectivity in science. There is no subjectivity in science. There is no subjectivity in science. And so on. Maybe if you chant it long enough it'll become true. Nothing "religious" about that, huh?

[...]

I personally don't think there's anything "typical" about YH8.

I think it comes from misidentifying faith with belief. Faith is a belief but not all belief is faith. It doesn't help that some people claim faith when they only have belief.

NEHOR'S TIERS OF BELIEF

Level One: Unprovable assertion. Example: "I believe in String Theory"

This level is purely a guess based on instinct and what you had for breakfast.

Level Two: Weak theory. Example: "I believe that we should withdraw from the UN."

This level is a guess in a field you generally know little about. It is based on what you have read and a good bit of gut instinct. Smart people realize they can be wrong on this level. Morons do not.

Level Three: Strong theory. Example: "If I quit smoking, I will live longer."

This is a much more educated guess. While not entirely sure of the results, you can predict them fairly well.

Level Four: Borderline Fact. Example: "The founding fathers signed the Declaration of Independence in 1776."

This is something considered to be so proven that it would take monumental evidence to overturn it. It could be a bedrock principle or just something you take as proven.

Level Five: Faith. Example: "Exercise will grant me more energy and better health" and the person goes out and does it.

Faith is a belief that motivates to action. If you have faith in your spouse then you will actually trust them. If you have faith in democracy you will do all you can to uphold it.


Faith is unique in the list in that it can be present in any of the above.

Doctor Steuss wrote:I personally don't think there's anything "typical" about YH8.

LOL. YH8 is your typical Mormon pumped up on crack and amphetamines.

What Gadianton has pointed out here is not an uncommon response. Many religious people who don't understand the goals and workings of science are apt to "level the playing field" by saying science relies on faith as well, or that science is even a religion all of its own. A more self-reflective apologist might not want to trivilaize religious faith in this manner.

Yes, one of my all time favorite apologetic tactics - to make science look bad, they try and make it look like religion!!!!!

beastie wrote:Yes, one of my all time favorite apologetic tactics - to make science look bad, they try and make it look like religion!!!!!

alright, who handed over the playbook?

LifeOnaPlate wrote:

beastie wrote:Yes, one of my all time favorite apologetic tactics - to make science look bad, they try and make it look like religion!!!!!

alright, who handed over the playbook?

I sold one on Ebay......sorry.

The Nehor wrote:I think it comes from misidentifying faith with belief. Faith is a belief but not all belief is faith. It doesn't help that some people claim faith when they only have belief.

NEHOR'S TIERS OF BELIEF

Level One: Unprovable assertion. Example: "I believe in String Theory"

This level is purely a guess based on instinct and what you had for breakfast.

Level Two: Weak theory. Example: "I believe that we should withdraw from the UN."

This level is a guess in a field you generally know little about. It is based on what you have read and a good bit of gut instinct. Smart people realize they can be wrong on this level. Morons do not.

Level Three: Strong theory. Example: "If I quit smoking, I will live longer."

This is a much more educated guess. While not entirely sure of the results, you can predict them fairly well.

Level Four: Borderline Fact. Example: "The founding fathers signed the Declaration of Independence in 1776."

This is something considered to be so proven that it would take monumental evidence to overturn it. It could be a bedrock principle or just something you take as proven.

Level Five: Faith. Example: "Exercise will grant me more energy and better health" and the person goes out and does it.

Faith is a belief that motivates to action. If you have faith in your spouse then you will actually trust them. If you have faith in democracy you will do all you can to uphold it.


Faith is unique in the list in that it can be present in any of the above.

Good post. I like this list!

Scottie wrote:

The Nehor wrote:I think it comes from misidentifying faith with belief. Faith is a belief but not all belief is faith. It doesn't help that some people claim faith when they only have belief.

NEHOR'S TIERS OF BELIEF

Level One: Unprovable assertion. Example: "I believe in String Theory"

This level is purely a guess based on instinct and what you had for breakfast.

Level Two: Weak theory. Example: "I believe that we should withdraw from the UN."

This level is a guess in a field you generally know little about. It is based on what you have read and a good bit of gut instinct. Smart people realize they can be wrong on this level. Morons do not.

Level Three: Strong theory. Example: "If I quit smoking, I will live longer."

This is a much more educated guess. While not entirely sure of the results, you can predict them fairly well.

Level Four: Borderline Fact. Example: "The founding fathers signed the Declaration of Independence in 1776."

This is something considered to be so proven that it would take monumental evidence to overturn it. It could be a bedrock principle or just something you take as proven.

Level Five: Faith. Example: "Exercise will grant me more energy and better health" and the person goes out and does it.

Faith is a belief that motivates to action. If you have faith in your spouse then you will actually trust them. If you have faith in democracy you will do all you can to uphold it.


Faith is unique in the list in that it can be present in any of the above.

Good post. I like this list!

Thanks, I came up with it this week to use in a lesson on Faith coming up.